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Old 07-24-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,348,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I guess I fail to care much at this point. I doubt very much that you or anyone else would read what I posted. You'd find a reason to attack the source instead.
So, you have absolutely no credibility, rather than no credibility.
Your choice.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,702,019 times
Reputation: 2179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
First let me say that what you say by observe, is observe in the present. How things happened in the past is unobservable, so how these things came to be is a mystery unless we have first hand information from someone who was there. Evolutionary scientist were not there in the past, so their stories of past events are based on present observations of how the earth, matter, nature behaves today.

The bible is the word of God. As such it describes how things came to be. It is written of Gods perspective and of events that only God could observe, ie. the formation of the earth before humans were created.

The bible does not explain everything in exacting detail, but gives us reference to how God did what he did.

God created the earth and then the sun, moon and stars according to Genesis. So the stars were created to give light to the earth. It says that God stretched out the heavens. So, the stars that we can observe yet are a large distance away could have be pushed to their current position by God all the while sending their light to earh. Remember a light year is a distance. Because these stars are millions of light years away does not mean that the light traveled for millions of years. Remember no one has observed them giving their light to the earth for millions of years. The bible is unclear on the details of how they got to their current postions other then God putting them there.

Fossil fuels do not require more than a few week to be produced. Your Idea that these thing require thousands or millions of years to form is false reasoning and not based on anything tangable. Coal and Oil and even dimonds can be produced rather quickly. Only the right conditions are required. See Cubic Zirconias (man made dimonds) or commercial produced oil from turkey oful. The discover magazine also did an article called "Oil from anything" detailing how little time is required to produce oil. The same is true with fossils. Given the right conditions a fossil can be produced in less that 40 years from known events in nature and dare I say even shorter periods of time given correct conditions.

The earth is alway being impacted. We have seen the effects in history. Many times in the history books they describes earthquakes. These may be the effects of these impacts. Or the civilization may have been completely wiped out the earth is full of wiped out civilizations.

The rate of mountain growth is based on current observations. Rates can change over time so to assume that these rates have always been the same is absurd.

The bible describes concerning the flood of Noahs day as being complete and global in scale. It says that the fountains of the deep broke up. The bible describes a world prior to the flood with continuous techtonic plates, ie no fractures with water below and water above. The mountain were formed mainly due to this breaking of the techtonic plates causeing the waters from below to gush up. The falling plates forced the mountain ranges up and the sea beds down. For a period of time the water prevailed on the land (before the mountains rose or the sea beds fell) covering the earth completely. The flood was complete and catastrophic. The mountains quickly formed and the rate of the techtonic plates have slowed over time after this initial rise cause the rate of the mountain rising to slow to what we observe today.

This quick covering of the earth by water and water borne sediment is the best conditions to produce fossils. The plants and animals of Noah's time were quickly covered. So the fossil record we observe today is not a reccord of millions of years, but represents a reccord of the flood of Noah's time only and all plants and animals covered and killed by that event.
So says a bunch of men 2000 years ago. Are you that trusting of people you have never met, and of things there is no physical proof for and no other events in over 2000 years? Please post me scientific proof of the fast forming of mountains, and the proof of the fossils of Trex and raptors are less than 6000 years old. And no the Bible is not proof, I want unbiased scientific proof. And I would like proof that fossil fuel (not synthetic) and diamonds for that matter are formed in a few weeks. And no I am not looking it up, you said it you prove it.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,702,019 times
Reputation: 2179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
First let me say that what you say by observe, is observe in the present. How things happened in the past is unobservable, so how these things came to be is a mystery unless we have first hand information from someone who was there. Evolutionary scientist were not there in the past, so their stories of past events are based on present observations of how the earth, matter, nature behaves today.

The bible is the word of God. As such it describes how things came to be. It is written of Gods perspective and of events that only God could observe, ie. the formation of the earth before humans were created.

The bible does not explain everything in exacting detail, but gives us reference to how God did what he did.

God created the earth and then the sun, moon and stars according to Genesis. So the stars were created to give light to the earth. It says that God stretched out the heavens. So, the stars that we can observe yet are a large distance away could have be pushed to their current position by God all the while sending their light to earh. Remember a light year is a distance. Because these stars are millions of light years away does not mean that the light traveled for millions of years. Remember no one has observed them giving their light to the earth for millions of years. The bible is unclear on the details of how they got to their current postions other then God putting them there.

Fossil fuels do not require more than a few week to be produced. Your Idea that these thing require thousands or millions of years to form is false reasoning and not based on anything tangable. Coal and Oil and even dimonds can be produced rather quickly. Only the right conditions are required. See Cubic Zirconias (man made dimonds) or commercial produced oil from turkey oful. The discover magazine also did an article called "Oil from anything" detailing how little time is required to produce oil. The same is true with fossils. Given the right conditions a fossil can be produced in less that 40 years from known events in nature and dare I say even shorter periods of time given correct conditions.

The earth is alway being impacted. We have seen the effects in history. Many times in the history books they describes earthquakes. These may be the effects of these impacts. Or the civilization may have been completely wiped out the earth is full of wiped out civilizations.

The rate of mountain growth is based on current observations. Rates can change over time so to assume that these rates have always been the same is absurd.

The bible describes concerning the flood of Noahs day as being complete and global in scale. It says that the fountains of the deep broke up. The bible describes a world prior to the flood with continuous techtonic plates, ie no fractures with water below and water above. The mountain were formed mainly due to this breaking of the techtonic plates causeing the waters from below to gush up. The falling plates forced the mountain ranges up and the sea beds down. For a period of time the water prevailed on the land (before the mountains rose or the sea beds fell) covering the earth completely. The flood was complete and catastrophic. The mountains quickly formed and the rate of the techtonic plates have slowed over time after this initial rise cause the rate of the mountain rising to slow to what we observe today.

This quick covering of the earth by water and water borne sediment is the best conditions to produce fossils. The plants and animals of Noah's time were quickly covered. So the fossil record we observe today is not a reccord of millions of years, but represents a reccord of the flood of Noah's time only and all plants and animals covered and killed by that event.
I think I am now dumber for having read this. And in no way is a CZ a diamond, they do not even test the same!!!!! And please show me where these great fountains are? Again no Bible evidence.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Status: "Token Canuck" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,623 posts, read 37,274,218 times
Reputation: 14078
How on earth you creationists can dismiss everything that we know and can prove, in favor of this nonsense is beyond me.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,449,270 times
Reputation: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
An untried quantum theory that has no evidence to support it is not proof.



Why would an intelligent designer fill the human body with useless organs? And if I recall my bible, there was no mention of childhood. Scripture states, if I recall, that they were "created" as full sized adults. BTW, when did god create all those other people who were outside of Eden?



Like light, Carbon 14 has a constant deterioration rate that can be measured. Everything on the planet contains Carbon 14. Using Radio Carbon dating, we can determine, quite accuratly, the general age of something, whether rock or fossil.



Again, radio carbon dating. Dating the rocks have allowed us to determine the age of the Rockies, which is some 65 million years of age for the younger ranges to as old as 3,980 million years of age in the older Southern Ranges.

And thanks to this upheaval, we can date what was once deep rock strata, which has been dated as old as 3.5 billion years old.
We do not use cabon dating to date rocks. I think you are refering to Isotopic dating in general. Carbon dating has an upper limit of 10k years and maybe stretched to 50k years with loss of accuracy.

The human body has no useless organs. The idea of vestigial organs is a vestigial theory. All organs have a purpose. This is true of "junk" DNA. All DNA is required. Sometimes dormant, but all necessary.

There was no other humans outside of Eden. You may be refering to Cain knowing (having sex) with his wife outside of Eden, but it does not say that he got his wife in land far away. Also the bible says that Adam called Eve, Eve because she is the mother of all living. Why we he say this if there were others out there. No, Cain took one of his sisters to wife. This was OK to do prior to the law which did not come until the time of Moses.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:04 AM
 
4,655 posts, read 5,088,576 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I think I am now dumber for having read this. And in no way is a CZ a diamond, they do not even test the same!!!!! And please show me where these great fountains are? Again no Bible evidence.

I watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel the other day demonstrating the history of and the process of making diamonds. It was fascinating. They weren't CZ, but they were real, man-made diamonds.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:11 AM
Status: "Token Canuck" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,623 posts, read 37,274,218 times
Reputation: 14078
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel the other day demonstrating the history of and the process of making diamonds. It was fascinating. They weren't CZ, but they were real, man-made diamonds.
Big deal....There is a huge difference between man made diamonds using science and diamonds made in nature. How do you think man made diamonds helps prove a young earth?

SYDNEY: Some intriguing diamonds discovered in Western Australia suggest that life on Earth could be 700 million years older than we thought. If proved correct, the find would raise new questions about the basic conditions required for the genesis of life.

Ancient diamonds push back age of life | COSMOS magazine
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:16 AM
Status: "Token Canuck" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,623 posts, read 37,274,218 times
Reputation: 14078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
We do not use cabon dating to date rocks. I think you are refering to Isotopic dating in general. Carbon dating has an upper limit of 10k years and maybe stretched to 50k years with loss of accuracy.

The human body has no useless organs. The idea of vestigial organs is a vestigial theory. All organs have a purpose. This is true of "junk" DNA. All DNA is required. Sometimes dormant, but all necessary.

There was no other humans outside of Eden. You may be refering to Cain knowing (having sex) with his wife outside of Eden, but it does not say that he got his wife in land far away. Also the bible says that Adam called Eve, Eve because she is the mother of all living. Why we he say this if there were others out there. No, Cain took one of his sisters to wife. This was OK to do prior to the law which did not come until the time of Moses.
The ages of Earth and Moon rocks and of meteorites are measured by the decay of long-lived radioactive isotopes of elements that occur naturally in rocks and minerals and that decay with half lives of 700 million to more than 100 billion years to stable isotopes of other elements. These dating techniques, which are firmly grounded in physics and are known collectively as radiometric dating, are used to measure the last time that the rock being dated was either melted or disturbed sufficiently to rehomogenize its radioactive elements.

Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake.

Geologic Time: Age of the Earth
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,702,019 times
Reputation: 2179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel the other day demonstrating the history of and the process of making diamonds. It was fascinating. They weren't CZ, but they were real, man-made diamonds.
The lack of inclusions will tell a jeweler they are not earth born diamonds but man made. Diamonds get inclusions from being formed in the earth and being forced up by volcanic eruptions.

I have a man made, a lot cheaper, hence the other difference between them and diamonds. more value for the way they are made.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:45 AM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,948,503 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
We do not use cabon dating to date rocks. I think you are refering to Isotopic dating in general. Carbon dating has an upper limit of 10k years and maybe stretched to 50k years with loss of accuracy.
What? Where did you get the 10k as the upper limit and why do you think it's that? The upper limit for carbon dating has always been established to be 50k.
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