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This is probably a big part of why atheism doesn't have much of a future. (Yes irreligion is growing in America, but most irreligious people aren't atheists even now. Even in Europe I'm not sure atheism is particularly popular outside Scandinavia, France, the Baltics, and the Czech Republic) You don't exactly add members by saying "we're true, you're not, and I don't care if being true improves anything or offers you anything."
How interesting that you already know the future of atheism. Is divining the future one of the God powers you have?
At any rate, it's not up to me to grow atheism. I have no duty to proselytize. But you imply that some people would rather enjoy the darkness of a soothing lie, rather than live in the light of an upsetting truth. So let me ask you directly, would YOU rather know the truth, even if the truth isn't pleasant? If the truth is simply that we aren't infinite, there's no hope to live forever, and our personality won't survive death, would you want to know or not?
I think your answer will be interesting to me. Because I do believe there are a lot of people who would rather believe a comforting lie than an uncomfortable truth.
I'm just not one of those people.
Are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
If the "truth" were to a lead to a hopeless humanity that dies out through childlessness or despair than a reasonable argument could be made that the truth is maybe not that great.
Why?
(Not that I believe what you are saying is true. In fact, we atheist get along quite well. But assuming arguendo that you are correct, why would that make the truth less great.)
And what responsibility does truth have to be "that great"? Can't it just be true? I don't think we can insist that the truth be comforting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
At the very least people want something that's true and useful. If you have nothing to offer than "shut up and take your medicine" than it is right and proper that atheism remain the prerogative of depressives, ivory tower intellectuals, and marginalized cranks.
It's only your bigotry against atheism that makes you think that way. There's no evidence that atheism is the prerogative of depressives and marginalized cranks, (although admitted intellectuals tend to be atheist.) In fact, I bet that better describes Christians, and for any evidence you could find to support your position, I think I could find more to support the opposite.
But either way, even if it were true, it wouldn't turn what is true into a lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R.
(Not that the claim of being true is remotely valid. I'm just saying even if I bought your premise than I don't buy your conclusion. If atheism were a truth that has no value than it is truth best left ignored. At least the truths of science or math help us build widgets or cure disease)
I did say it has another virtue besides being true: It helps organize and clarify your thoughts. As a Christian, (or believer in any supernatural deity) you have to jump through a lot of hoops to keep your thoughts somewhat consistent. Trying to make everything you believe makes senses is a full time job.
You may not believe this, but the conversion to atheism makes everything so much easier to explain and simply to keep the thoughts logically consistent.
How interesting that you already know the future of atheism. Is divining the future one of the God powers you have?
Fine "likely has no future." Sheesh. I'm going on demographics, fertility rate, etc. It's not magic or miraculous, it's just what seems likely.
The future I don't think is Catholics either going by that. It seems to be an increase of Muslims, Pentecostals, and religiously unaffiliated theists. This is my educated guess.
Wow! What on earth do you think atheism is? I too was thinking you were one of the few reasonable Christians here, but now I'm not so sure.
I'm not speaking of all atheists in that post. I'm saying if atheism's only value is "it's true" than that's not as much as Boxcar may want it to be.
To me if atheism, or any "meme" or "trope" or whatever term you like, is going to be successful it has to offer more than just truth. To me if something is true it's going to be useful too, but some atheists seem to say "I really don't care if it's useful or not or helps anyone with anything" and I think that's idiotic.
It's not true that pi equals 3.1416, but it's a close enough approximation for most things. There are times an absolute truth is not going to be used very much because it's just not helpful. If "no God" is an unhelpful "truth" than something else might be better for the mass of men.
Granted atheism is not true and not useful, but just asserting that doesn't really get my point across.
*I'm open to many atheistic philosophies being quite noble, but in itself atheism is not much of anything.
Fine "likely has no future." Sheesh. I'm going on demographics, fertility rate, etc. It's not magic or miraculous, it's just what seems likely.
The future I don't think is Catholics either going by that. It seems to be an increase of Muslims, Pentecostals, and religiously unaffiliated theists. This is my educated guess.
I noticed you didn't answer the one question that I said I would find most interesting: Would YOU rather know the truth, even if it was uncomfortable, rather than believe in a comfortable lie? Or if you prefer, if atheism were true, would you rather know it or retain your belief in a God and an infinite afterlife?
I also disagree with your demographics comments, but I don't want to derail this conversation so I won't contest it here.
This is probably a big part of why atheism doesn't have much of a future. (Yes irreligion is growing in America, but most irreligious people aren't atheists even now. Even in Europe I'm not sure atheism is particularly popular outside Scandinavia, France, the Baltics, and the Czech Republic) You don't exactly add members by saying "we're true, you're not, and I don't care if being true improves anything or offers you anything."
If the "truth" were to a lead to a hopeless humanity that dies out through childlessness or despair than a reasonable argument could be made that the truth is maybe not that great. At the very least people want something that's true and useful. If you have nothing to offer than "shut up and take your medicine" than it is right and proper that atheism remain the prerogative of depressives, ivory tower intellectuals, and marginalized cranks. (Not that the claim of being true is remotely valid. I'm just saying even if I bought your premise than I don't buy your conclusion. If atheism were a truth that has no value than it is truth best left ignored. At least the truths of science or math help us build widgets or cure disease)
I believe that this one post of yours is spot on.
What is the difference between believing in God or not is as stark as night and day.
Darkness is before the light in reference to spiritual knowledge as well as the physical night and day.
In the physical, that is all it is, first night and then the day, the same every day.
But in the spiritual, the darkness is dispelled by the light to remain in the light and of which there remains no more darkness.
So the only hope for the physical non believers is the same thing from day to day without an end to the night.
So hope than is alive in the spiritual when the light of Gods knowledge in us begins to dispel the darkness of our understanding into the light which is quenched not.
But, that has to be experienced in each individual, each according to the state one is in.
Progress? Or the hope of progress? Can only be challenged by what is already the darkness we're in, inspired by the spiritual guidance from God to improve the state that we're in.
I believe all inspiration for inventions come from God in its due time, whether credit is due Him or not.
I am an atheist, but I have no problem seeing that many religious people are perfectly capable of doing great things. When I was still a Christian, my church would deliver food to poor people a few times a year, no strings attached (seriously). The private Christian high school I attended did the same thing around Thanksgiving. No religious literature handed out or invites to church or anything, just food. I still admire that.
I am an atheist, but I have no problem seeing that many religious people are perfectly capable of doing great things. When I was still a Christian, my church would deliver food to poor people a few times a year, no strings attached (seriously). The private Christian high school I attended did the same thing around Thanksgiving. No religious literature handed out or invites to church or anything, just food. I still admire that.
Because you can see good in others only means that good exists within you as well.
I am an atheist, but I have no problem seeing that many religious people are perfectly capable of doing great things. When I was still a Christian, my church would deliver food to poor people a few times a year, no strings attached (seriously). The private Christian high school I attended did the same thing around Thanksgiving. No religious literature handed out or invites to church or anything, just food. I still admire that.
Good for you!
I think a person can admire lots of ways of thinking and being that aren't there own. I think many Buddhists do great things even though Buddhism is very unappealing to me. (Oddly in more "adulterated and impure" forms Buddhism is a bit more pleasing to me)
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