The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" straw man (grace, believe, exist)
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Surely someone as well versed in comparative religion as you claim to be knows that "Christmas" trees are part of the pagan religious celebration of Yule, and do in fact have loads of religious symbolism. Same goes for the trappings of the Easter holiday - bunnies and eggs and even the term "Easter" have nothing to do with Jesus but everything to do with a pagan goddess of fertility.
Actually, the whole "Easter" "Esther" thing is completely bogus, and Easter is really just the Equinox. Christmas is not religious imagiry in the sense that people celebrating it with Christmas trees actually believe there is any religious significance to them. The Christmas tree has no religious significance to paganism: That would be the Yule log.
Even the days of the week, Tyre's Day (Tuesday) and Thor's Day (Thursday) are named for pagan gods, what, should we change them to make Richard Dawkins happy?
Right so a religion is apparently valid if it grows from personal experience, a series of lies, something intended to be sci-fi or otherwise completely at odds with what the creator intended as long as the creator never intended it to specifically be a "parody" of another religion.
Notice the whole "personal experinece" thing. If someone has a personal experience, then that is what matters. A religion that starts as a Myth (Star Wars could be called a Myth because it follows all the classic motifs) is one thing...a parody, started as a parody, stated as a parody that everyone understands is a parody is a completely different animal.
Also, the whole "series of lies" thing that people bring up is all relative and is the result of people trying to place literalism, which might work if you are reading a science text book, to use when studying a Myth. Myth is not a lie, but a truth told through allegory. See here: https://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...religious.html
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You can treat a religion whatever way you like victorianpunk but as we've pointed out, pastafarianism is just as valid as any other religion and that your reasons for calling it a strawman are flawed, completely arbitrary and a set of double standard that grows more ridiculous with time.
No, you simply do not understand my reasons. A religion is valid because of the conviction of it's believers: No conviction, no religion. Simple as that.
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Actually this thread has served to quite well in this regard, let's recap. For a religion to be true it must:
-Have at least 10 members who believe in it
-Have at least 10 members who believe in it and whose posting history is all about how they treat pastafarianism right.
-Have at least 10 members who believe in it, whose posting history is all about how they treat pastafarianism right and whom you've read their minds to check that they really do believe.
-Have at least 10 members who believe in it, whose posting history is all about how they treat pastafarianism right, whom you've read their minds to check that they really do believe and who outnumber those who believe otherwise.
-Have at least 10 members who believe in it, whose posting history is all about how they treat pastafarianism right, whom you've read their minds to check that they really do believe, who outnumber those who believe otherwise and specifically not have been made as a parody.
-Have at least 10 members who believe in it, whose posting history is all about how they treat pastafarianism right, whom you've read their minds to check that they really do believe, who outnumber those who believe otherwise, specifically not have been made as a parody and with members who have gone so far as to be martyred for their beliefs(Below).
No, I said that it is fine if a religion has ONE member, and a posting history showing me or anyone else that the religion is truly believed in and that the person has conviction in it is just evidence of the conviction that makes the religion true, as is everything else I posted: ALL ONE NEEDS TO SEE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT SOMEONE TRULY BELIEVES IN AND HAS CONVICTION IN THE RELIGION. Everything else I might have said are only things that support the conviction, and not a "check list". I
Again, in one short, easy to read sentence: A true religion is deemed true by the conviction of it's members, nothing more. Everything else which you call "arbirtary" is just evidence that the FSM is not a religion because there is none of the conviction.
All the other things I placed as supporting the general argument in the OP I has assumed that people would be able to understand was just intended as supporting the main argument...I apologize for overestimating some people's reading comprehension abilities.
Actually, the whole "Easter" "Esther" thing is completely bogus, and Easter is really just the Equinox. Christmas is not religious imagiry in the sense that people celebrating it with Christmas trees actually believe there is any religious significance to them. The Christmas tree has no religious significance to paganism: That would be the Yule log.
Even the days of the week, Tyre's Day (Tuesday) and Thor's Day (Thursday) are named for pagan gods, what, should we change them to make Richard Dawkins happy?
My husband comes from Pagan orgins " Norwegian", so I hear it a lot from his mother.
Easter comes from Eastre, the Anglo-Saxon name of a Teutonic goddess of spring and fertility, to whom was dedicated a month corresponding to April. Her festival was celebrated on the day of the vernal equinox; traditions associated with the festival survive in the Easter rabbit, a symbol of fertility, and in colored easter eggs, originally painted with bright colors to represent the sunlight of spring, and used in Easter-egg rolling contests or given as gifts.
And Pagans didn't cut down trees and decorate them inside their homes. They would actually bring live evergreens inside. They cut parts of the evergreens off and put them on their homes and would decorate trees outside.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
My husband comes from Pagan orgins " Norwegian", so I hear it a lot from his mother.
Easter comes from Eastre, the Anglo-Saxon name of a Teutonic goddess of spring and fertility, to whom was dedicated a month corresponding to April. Her festival was celebrated on the day of the vernal equinox; traditions associated with the festival survive in the Easter rabbit, a symbol of fertility, and in colored easter eggs, originally painted with bright colors to represent the sunlight of spring, and used in Easter-egg rolling contests or given as gifts.
And Pagans didn't cut down trees and decorate them inside their homes. They would actually bring live evergreens inside. They cut parts of the evergreens off and put them on their homes and would decorate trees outside.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
The most common misunderstanding (or lie?) amongst many non-/anti-Christians is that "Easter" and "Christmas" have pagan origins. In fact, they both have Christian origins. In Western cultures, some pagan INFLUENCE and traditions crept into these two Christian Holidays. In the last century, as the world became more Westernized/Americanized, some of this has also superficially crept into Eastern Christian cultures as well, directly as a result of their overall westernization.
For example, you are right about the word "Easter" being derived from a pagan holiday or tradition. However, the Christian "Easter" holiday was not universally known as "Easter"; it is in Western cultures, like your husband's Norwegian culture, where this name was adopted. In Christianity, particularly Eastern Christianity, "Easter" was always called "Pascha", and still is to this day. Eastern Christians nowadays are modern and aware that Westerners call the Holiday "Easter" and rather than argue over the term they simpy accept it as the Western name for the same Christian holiday.
"Pascha" is derived from the word "Pesach" in Hebrew, which means "Passover". The Christian Church began celebrating Pascha very early in the Church; it was the Christian "Passover". Christ is the Paschal Lamb for Christians; His sacrifice was foreshadowed by the Passover of the Hebrews in Egypt who were covered by the blood of the lamb they sacrificed and protected from death. That is why "Easter" occurs aroun the time of Passover; it is essentially the Christian version of the same holiday. Its origins are Christian; the pagan influences came much later in Western cultures and churches.
The most common misunderstanding (or lie?) amongst many non-/anti-Christians is that "Easter" and "Christmas" have pagan origins. .
Oh, please. Can't you people just be gracious and admit that yes, they were originally pagan holidays but they were such a good idea that you decided to use them as religious holidays as well? Where's the harm?
Oh, please. Can't you people just be gracious and admit that yes, they were originally pagan holidays but they were such a good idea that you decided to use them as religious holidays as well? Where's the harm?
Jeeezus.
If they were, I'd be happy to admit it. They weren't. I do admit readily though that modern, westernized incarnations of those holidays are greatly influenced with pagan traditions and themes. No big deal.
My husband comes from Pagan orgins " Norwegian", so I hear it a lot from his mother.
Easter comes from Eastre, the Anglo-Saxon name of a Teutonic goddess of spring and fertility, to whom was dedicated a month corresponding to April. Her festival was celebrated on the day of the vernal equinox; traditions associated with the festival survive in the Easter rabbit, a symbol of fertility, and in colored easter eggs, originally painted with bright colors to represent the sunlight of spring, and used in Easter-egg rolling contests or given as gifts.
It comes from Eoestre-monath (Eostre Month) which is the anglo-saxon word for April, as every month was named for a God or Goddess.
And Pagans didn't cut down trees and decorate them inside their homes. They would actually bring live evergreens inside. They cut parts of the evergreens off and put them on their homes and would decorate trees outside.
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The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again.
The whole "cutting it down" part is from the Yule log, which was a log that was cut during the Anglo-Saxon/Nordic time of Yule and set to burn for twelve days, hence the twelve days of Christimas.
Anyway, as a Christian myself, allow me to say, I HATE CHRISTMAS! It is further proof that god hates the world and is a worthless bastard that he allows us to exist in a world in which the absolute cheesiness of this the most tacky of tacky holidays can flourish. I might love Christ, but every time I see one of those ugly, plastic nativity scenes I just want to take a baseball bat and smash the baby Jesus to bits and pieces.
And that AWFUL CHRISTMAS MUSIC THEY PLAY EVERYWHERE! It's the only holiday like that! They don't play Marlyn Manson or Black Sabbath at the mall or the Walgreens when it's almost Halloween.
anyway, God in Gnosticism never said anything about not having a pagan holiday either way, so it doesn't matter to me, even though I choose not to celebrate Christmas.
Oh, please. Can't you people just be gracious and admit that yes, they were originally pagan holidays but they were such a good idea that you decided to use them as religious holidays as well? Where's the harm?
Jeeezus.
I admit that they have pagan origins, yes. So what?
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Can't you people just be gracious and admit that yes, they were originally pagan holidays but they were such a good idea that you decided to use them as religious holidays as well? Where's the harm? 
