My critique of religion (Christian, exist, perspective, Christ)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why does the fact bad things happen always come up as "proof" there isn't a god?
It really is only proof that there is no omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. As the OP stated, there are 3 possibilities:
A. He doesn't exist.
B. He does exist and does not have the power to stop it.
C. He does exist, has the power to stop, and chooses not to.
Quote:
Without the yin-yang dynamic, all humanity's highest aspirations and achievements would not be possible.
I don't know about that.. You really think gang-raping 11 year-olds is required to make our "highest aspirations and achievements" possible? How about murderers slaughtering families in front of family members? Or volcanoes burning villages alive? Or worms that burrow in your eyeballs? ad nauseum
Why, exactly, are these horrific things necessary to make "humanity's highest aspirations and achievements" possible?
Really? Exactly how do they do that, and if they do how does it make it a belief system?
The same way that a fundamentalist Christian does it. They have their opinions and they delight in showing them off to the world to prove how right they are. This is not enlightenment - it is narcissism. They let their belief (or non-belief) shape who they are and how they present themselves. Many people strive to feel like part of a group, that they are right, and that there are enemies who are aligned against them. It satisfies some instinctual urge we humans have and it is pathetically predictable. Note that not all followers of belief systems have such sentiments and proclivities but most do.
To me a belief system is when you have a group of individuals who band together because of a shared ideology. Oftentimes, this ideology is one that claims the mantle of truth or dictates how the world should be ordered and what humans should strive for. They often believe that only they know what ails the world and only their knowledge offers prescription for it. For example, the communists believe that the state and the proletariat should control the means of production. Christians believe that there is a loving and intelligent creator and that Jesus Christ was His chosen representative. Nationalists believe that their ethnic and national heritage gives them a right to pursue their own interests at the expense of other peoples. And on and on. Every belief system has had eloquent sophists who clawed their way to the top, reveled in the attention and power that they received, and subsequently led their flocks straight to destruction. This is what it all boils down to - some men find ways by sheer power of charisma to offer a bunch of their fellows the "answer" and if it resonates with enough people and offers enough novelty then people will follow blindly because the vast majority of them are sheep.
So, I refuse to follow anything. I only trust my own senses and conclusions. I reiterate; people who need something in their lives because they are too scared to face the world are weak. People who want to be part of a group are weak. People who want a ready-made and romantic ideology laid out before them so that they don't have to think for themselves are weak. This is why I despise religion, ideology, and any system of thought.
Last edited by Renaldo5000; 11-09-2009 at 02:27 PM..
I gave three possibilities as to the Creator and His role in our world:
1. He doesn't exist.
2. He exists and does not have the power to stop said bad things.
3. He exists, does have the power to stop said things, and chooses not to.
One of them has to be correct.
I cannot respect a Creator that does not exist. I cannot respect a Creator that does not have omnipotent power to intervene. I definately cannot respect a Creator that does have the power to intervene and chooses to do nothing.
If God offers me salvation then I have chosen to return the ticket. I am not interested in what He has to offer. If I face Him, as is envisioned by most monotheistic religions, then He will have much to answer for and I will have some very pointed questions for Him.
Last edited by Renaldo5000; 11-09-2009 at 02:29 PM..
I'm speaking of the doctrine of Original Sin, i.e., the first humans chose to sin and because of that, in this world, we must endure bad things (Genesis 3). Sin has been our nature ever since.
Ah yes, this coming from a book that claims the Earth is approximately 10,000 years old when science has proven otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
However, God, in His mercy, gave us a way of escape through Jesus Christ.
And if you had been born in the Middle East there is a good chance you would be singing the praises of Allah and Mohammed. If you had been born in ancient Greece you would be advising me to pray to the Gods and take Zeus's guidance. You would emphatically believe other things if you had been born in a different time or in a different culture. This is a prime example of how human beings are often wrong when it comes to spiritual matters. Only one spiritual path can be correct. Which is it? You don't know, I don't know, and nobody else does either. I just have the acumen to think it through and the balls to admit it.
It really is only proof that there is no omnipotent and omnibenevolent god. As the OP stated, there are 3 possibilities:
A. He doesn't exist.
B. He does exist and does not have the power to stop it.
C. He does exist, has the power to stop, and chooses not to.
I don't know about that.. You really think gang-raping 11 year-olds is required to make our "highest aspirations and achievements" possible? How about murderers slaughtering families in front of family members? Or volcanoes burning villages alive? Or worms that burrow in your eyeballs? ad nauseum
Why, exactly, are these horrific things necessary to make "humanity's highest aspirations and achievements" possible?
Who's the stronger woman? The one who never suffered in her entire life or the woman who was gang raped as a child, saw her family murdered, escaped an exploding volcano and went blind from burrowing eyeball worms... and got past it all to live a happy life? The despicable and uncontrollable acts present in the world are not commendable, but rising above them is.
If there is existence after death, then obviously the only thing you would get to take with you are your experiences. Pain and suffering...well, they hurt, but when it's over there is no pain, just the lessons learned and the self-confidence you've gained by doing something hard and succeeding.
Thats why Navy Seals are more "special" Navy Seamen...They were tested severely and came out on top. The same will be true for those who suffered in life but still went on.
And, pray tell, what good can come out of a three week old child being butchered alive by his mother? How does such a thing make anybody stronger or the world any better?
I gave three possibilities as to the Creator and His role in our world:
1. He doesn't exist.
2. He exists and does not have the power to stop said bad things.
3. He exists, does have the power to stop said things, and chooses not to.
One of them has to be correct.
I cannot respect a Creator that does not exist. I cannot respect a Creator that does not have omnipotent power to intervene. I definately cannot respect a Creator that does have the power to intervene and chooses to do nothing.
If God offers me salvation then I have chosen to return the ticket. I am not interested in what He has to offer. If I face Him, as is envisioned by most monotheistic religions, then He will have much to answer for and I will have some very pointed questions for Him.
So you want to be coddled? I guess that is what separates the men from the boys, so to speak. But it's only natural I suppose, despite being limited in perspective.
But I wouldn't worry about a big bearded white guy in robes sending you some place hot and smelly. I highly doubt it happens that way. I honestly doubt "he" is a "he" or "she", but rather an "us"
And, pray tell, what good can come out of a three week old child being butchered alive by his mother? How does such a thing make anybody stronger or the world any better?
People hear about it and are shocked and disturbed. The mother is put in jail and made to suffer. Other people who may have done the same are cowed or convinced not to do it themselves. Consequently fewer babies are killed and more survive to get a chance at living.
Or, maybe the mother feels regret for what she did. She decides to try to redeem herself, and after her time in jail is up, she works tirelessly on a crusade against child abuse or other good causes. Whether she actually redeems herself would be up to god, but her later good deeds would reverberate through the community. The posiblities are endless, really. Any bad situation can see good come of it if people have the courage to rise up to the occasion.
I don't want to be coddled. I just want the truth and I want to show people who are sheep how weak and misguided they are.
That's not exactly honorable either.
After all, isn't that just what the religious nutcases try to do...show how they are right and everyone else is not only wrong, but subhuman?
Last edited by Chango; 11-09-2009 at 03:13 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
