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That is irrelevant to the questions that I have raised. I think that "morality" is something that arose from cooperation which was more amenable to survival at times than aggressive competition. It is a survival mechanism; not an undeniable truth set down by a deity.
I disagree. It clearly shows a sin nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124
I have thought for years on this stuff. I have come to my conclusions, but I am still open-minded. I am willing to listen to anybody. If somebody can prove me wrong then please step forward. If all I have are blind theists and contrarian-wannabe atheists then don't even bother. I have examined every avenue of your belief structures and have found flaws.
Fair enough. You have chosen to put all of your faith on what is true into a book that was written and edited by men (who are imperfect). They chose and rejected certain books based on their own inclinations, biases, and the political realities of the time. I take it that the Gnostic texts don't enter into your repertoire.
Of course nobody has countered my point on how cultural and time differences could influence what they think about the nature of reality. If I were talking to a Grecian of 5,000 years ago I surmise that I would be getting a lecture on Zeus's undying love?
Fair enough. You have chosen to put all of your faith on what is true into a book that was written and edited by men (who are imperfect). They chose and rejected certain books based on their own inclinations, biases, and the political realities of the time. I take it that the Gnostic texts don't enter into your repertoire.
I believe God directed the actions of those you speak of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124
Of course nobody has countered my point on how cultural and time differences could influence what they think about the nature of reality. If I were talking to a Grecian of 5,000 years ago I surmise that I would be getting a lecture on Zeus's undying love?
The Bible says that men are without excuse, as God's handiwork is evident to all.
I also believe Christ will not return until all four corners of the earth have heard the gospel.
1. There has never been any verifiable physical evidence of a deity.
2. All religious texts that describe the supposed will of deities were written and compiled by men. Even if they were divinely inspired, men were involved in their crafting which makes the legitimacy and accuracy of them immediately suspect because men are imperfect.
3. The various religions and their individual denominations all espouse different things, yet they all claim that they alone represent truth and what the Creator wants. Only one of them has the possibility of being correct and therefore the vast majority have to be wrong. Yet, the adherents of all deity-based spiritual belief systems emphatically believe that they are right. This is direct evidence that men are easily misguided and routinely believe in things that are wrong. This makes all belief systems (spiritual, philosophical, ideological, political, etc..) suspect.
4. Most people who believe in religion do so for the wrong reasons. To follow and understand the profundity of a strict spiritual belief system requires wisdom, intelligence, and dedication. Most religious people (and most people who follow any belief system) I have encountered do not exhibit these traits. Some believe because that is all they were ever exposed to so they were brainwashed and coerced into the belief system. Others believe because they want to be a part of something or because the romantic aspects of the movement seduced them. Still others believe because they want the comfort of having a god watching over them and an easy-to-digest explanation of the world. Lastly, some believe because they self-righteously desire to be a part of something where they can lay claim to the mantle of truth and declare themselves as being enlightened.
5. Bad things happen in this world. There have been instances in the history of our race where pure and innocent children have been tortured and murdered. As far as God's existence relates to horrific things like this there are only several possibilities:
A. He doesn't exist.
B. He does exist and does not have the power to stop it.
C. He does exist, has the power to stop, and chooses not to.
The first two possibilities make him irrelevant. The last possibility makes him a bastard. Either way He is not worth following.
6. If a deity exists in the mold of what most monotheistic religions believe (an ominpotent, loving, and creating personality) then it is impossible for humans to understand the will of such a complex being. We have not been granted enough of an acumen to do so. Secondly, even if we could understand the Creator's will we would pervert it anyway. Thirdly, if we did have the acumen and the ability to not be lead astray then we would not be able to consistently enact the Creator's will because we have not been granted the needed fortitude to ignore our worldly desires. Lastly, even if we could accomplish all of the aforementioned things we would still occassionally reject God and His will because we human beings are notoriously rebellious. If the Creator exists as envisioned by monotheistic religions then He has utterly failed us by imbuing our race with these weaknesses and our circumstances with such impossible hurdles.
The Bible is a Book that was authored by a deity, and it's accurate prophecies are the proof of His Truth. If there was a real question as to the Bibles legitimacy, such obvious prophecies should of been proven false long ago. And the Bible clearly states, that most people will pervert it's message, yet those who truly seek God, will understand. Blaming God, for your lack of faith, will not keep you from the fires of hell.
The Bible is a Book that was authored by a deity, and it's accurate prophecies are the proof of His Truth. If there was a real question as to the Bibles legitimacy, such obvious prophecies should of been proven false long ago. And the Bible clearly states, that most people will pervert it's message, yet those who truly seek God, will understand. Blaming God, for your lack of faith, will not keep you from the fires of hell.
Was the Koran authored by a deity as well? And what accurate prophecies do you speak of? I have already shown that the Bible's claim of how old the world is, is utterly false. That immediately calls into question its accuracy on a myriad of issues.
I have yet to see anybody refute any of my main points. Saying that the fires of hell await is not a convincing argument to me.
Was the Koran authored by a deity as well? And what accurate prophecies do you speak of? I have already shown that the Bible's claim of how old the world is, is utterly false. That immediately calls into question its accuracy on a myriad of issues.
I have yet to see anybody refute any of my main points. Saying that the fires of hell await is not a convincing argument to me.
What is considered a "day" to the creator? Could it be a million or a billion years?
We don't know.
Just because you say the Bible is inaccurate doesn't make it so.
Just as I saying the Bible is true doesn't make it so.
If you follow the genealogy laid out in the Old Testament it becomes apparent that the Bible is claiming that the Earth is thousands of years old. This is obviously untrue.
Actually, Breakfast is believeable, I have had it in the past and I believe I will have it again in the morning, with three eggs. My breakfast is more worthy of reverence than is a christer belief system. My breakfast is both physically and spiritually fulfilling, a lot more than can honestly be said of religion.
I believe God directed the actions of those you speak of.
The Bible says that men are without excuse, as God's handiwork is evident to all.
I also believe Christ will not return until all four corners of the earth have heard the gospel.
Jehovah directed men to create a work mined with self-contradictions, impossilbe myths, historical innacuracies, and jambed packed with theopolitical instructions to create and preserve clerical power and wealth? Wow, some god.
And you believe that today, with missionaries and modern communications, that your gospel hasn't reached the "four corners of the earth"?
Actually, Breakfast is believeable, I have had it in the past and I believe I will have it again in the morning, with three eggs. My breakfast is more worthy of reverence than is a christer belief system. My breakfast is both physically and spiritually fulfilling, a lot more than can honestly be said of religion.
mmmmm, potatoe pancakes with apple sauce for my breakfast belief system.
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