My critique of religion (Jehovah, hell, myth, prophecies)
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I'm a Christian. I don't see how pointing to the terrible things in life will count as evidence toward "there is no god". Maybe when people realize how terrible things are around them, they will ask themselves, "if there was a god, would he like the things that are done here?" On another point, why would a god give humans free will and then not punish us for doing the wrong thing? It makes sense to me to discipline the dog when he tries to "hound" for food at the dinner bar. Please reply if I missed something or you think differently on my thought process.
Who's the stronger woman? The one who never suffered in her entire life or the woman who was gang raped as a child, saw her family murdered, escaped an exploding volcano and went blind from burrowing eyeball worms... and got past it all to live a happy life?
I doubt after all this the woman would be sane, let alone living a happy life after all those tragedies. But let me get this straight, you are saying that people who don't go through horrific tragedies are weak?
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The despicable and uncontrollable acts present in the world are not commendable, but rising above them is.
But God allegedly has control over them.. So his decision to allow them to happen is despicable and not commendable.
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If there is existence after death, then obviously the only thing you would get to take with you are your experiences. Pain and suffering...well, they hurt, but when it's over there is no pain, just the lessons learned and the self-confidence you've gained by doing something hard and succeeding.
Thats why Navy Seals are more "special" Navy Seamen...They were tested severely and came out on top. The same will be true for those who suffered in life but still went on.
Navy Seals choose to be tested. 11 year-old girls who are gang-raped do not.
Ah yes, this coming from a book that claims the Earth is approximately 10,000 years old when science has proven otherwise.
Why do we have to teach our children to be good? If left to their own devices, would children tend toward good or bad?
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Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124
And if you had been born in the Middle East there is a good chance you would be singing the praises of Allah and Mohammed. If you had been born in ancient Greece you would be advising me to pray to the Gods and take Zeus's guidance. You would emphatically believe other things if you had been born in a different time or in a different culture. This is a prime example of how human beings are often wrong when it comes to spiritual matters. Only one spiritual path can be correct. Which is it? You don't know, I don't know, and nobody else does either. I just have the acumen to think it through and the balls to admit it.
Yet, your beliefs are firm, aren't they? So are mine.
I'm a Christian. I don't see how pointing to the terrible things in life will count as evidence toward "there is no god".
Several of you are misunderstanding me or lacking in reading comprehension. I never said that there was no God. I don't know the nature of the Creator and neither do you. I was merely pointing out the weaknesses with religion and with belief in a deity. While I have made many points against religion and God, the one you are referring to is me noticing pure and innocent infants being exposed to the most horrific things. I stated that I refuse to follow an omnipotent deity that allows such things to happen to children. I clearly and unequivocally state that without reservation.
I doubt after all this the woman would be sane, let alone living a happy life after all those tragedies. But let me get this straight, you are saying that people who don't go through horrific tragedies are weak?
No, I'm saying people who go through horrific tragedies have the "opportunity" to be stronger than those who don't. That means they are better off than those who are untested, but those people who never get the experience are not necessarily weak.
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend
But God allegedly has control over them.. So his decision to allow them to happen is despicable and not commendable.
A person can keep his/her child perpetually locked up in a basement where they are "safe" and everything can be "controlled"...would that be commendable too?
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend
Navy Seals choose to be tested. 11 year-old girls who are gang-raped do not.
How do you know? Maybe we were chosen to have the opportunity to come here and suffer. There is no way to know except to die. If there is nothing, you blink out and it doesnt' matter. If your sentience stays around, than your new perspective will be greater and it might just seem like it was all worth it.
People hear about it and are shocked and disturbed. The mother is put in jail and made to suffer. Other people who may have done the same are cowed or convinced not to do it themselves. Consequently fewer babies are killed and more survive to get a chance at living.
Or, maybe the mother feels regret for what she did. She decides to try to redeem herself, and after her time in jail is up, she works tirelessly on a crusade against child abuse or other good causes. Whether she actually redeems herself would be up to god, but her later good deeds would reverberate through the community. The posiblities are endless, really. Any bad situation can see good come of it if people have the courage to rise up to the occasion.
A deity that uses people as pawns in some game of "balance" and that allows horrific suffering of an infant in the process is not a deity I will follow. Ever.
No, I'm saying people who go through horrific tragedies have the "opportunity" to be stronger than those who don't. That means they are better off than those who are untested, but those people who never get the experience are not necessarily weak.
You really think all bad things in this world are for the greater good? God decides a person needs to be strong so he allows her to be gang-raped as an adolescent? He can't find another way to make a person strong? And what about those who have mental problems all their life and are obviously weaker as a result of horrific tragedies?
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A person can keep his/her child perpetually locked up in a basement where they are "safe" and everything can be "controlled"...would that be commendable too?
Keeping a child safe from harm is commendable. If you could see into the future (like your god allegedly can), and you knew with 100% certainty that letting your kid out at a particular time on a particular day will get her gang-raped, then you would lock your kid up during that time, too. Or you would allow it to happen so your kid comes out stronger in the end, like you say your god does?
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How do you know? Maybe we were chosen to have the opportunity to come here and suffer.
Maybe your god chose for horrifying things to occur? He chose for Elisabeth Fritzl to be locked in her father's dungeon for decades to be raped repeatedly and have 7 children with her father?
Are you listening to yourself? You believe your god allows all the horrific things in the world to happen, including natural disasters, diseases etc. that people have no control over, and you are making excuses as to why your god has a right to do such things and still be called good.
On another point, why would a god give humans free will and then not punish us for doing the wrong thing?
Why would the Creator give us free will? Why would He not leave us with a clear and undeniable definition of His will? Why would He not give us the intellect to consistently understand it? Why would He not give us the strength to consistently follow it? Why would He imbue us with such weaknesses? Why would He leave us in such a predicament? Why would He fail us in such a blatant manner? Why would He allow such immoral things to happen to pure innocents?
I absolutely refuse to follow Him. I would rather spit in His face than bow before Him.
A deity that uses people as pawns in some game of "balance" and that allows horrific suffering of an infant in the process is not a deity I will follow. Ever.
No! Convert or die infidel!
What I'm saying is ***** will happen, and you can chose to learn from it or not. That much is true whether you believe in god or not.
But if you decide "god" is at fault for the bad things that happen in the world and nourish some deep down hate because of it, you will only end up hurting yourself.
I personally believe the world is what it is by design, and our limited perspective is what makes it seem so bad. Us getting mad at "god" for our trials could end up being a lot like a 2 year old getting mad at his parents because they wouldn't let him eat a jar of cookies before dinner. It would be petty compared to a immortal existence in an entire universe.
Why do we have to teach our children to be good? If left to their own devices, would children tend toward good or bad?
That is irrelevant to the questions that I have raised. I think that "morality" is something that arose from cooperation which was more amenable to survival at times than aggressive competition. It is a survival mechanism; not an undeniable truth set down by a deity.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Yet, your beliefs are firm, aren't they? So are mine.
I have thought for years on this stuff. I have come to my conclusions, but I am still open-minded. I am willing to listen to anybody. If somebody can prove me wrong then please step forward. If all I have are blind theists and contrarian-wannabe atheists then don't even bother. I have examined every avenue of your belief structures and have found flaws.
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