Jesus Was A Failure! (Catholicism, religions, Judaism, preaching)

[Dusty Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Rafius

...and Hinduism and Zoroastrianism have been running much longer. So if your claim is that longevity equals truth you'd better convert to Hinduism huh?

Or.....you could become a Druid.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes

Or.....you could become a Druid.

I couldn't get on with the dress!!

[Toni Sherente]

Originally Posted by Rafius

...and Hinduism and Zoroastrianism have been running much longer. So if your claim is that longevity equals truth you'd better convert to Hinduism huh?

No, my claim is not that longevity equals truth. You have a strange habit of making unsupported presumptions so that you can deride people for something they've never said.
You yourself said that Christianity would have 'lived and died' without Constantine, and then claimed that 'dying' didn't mean 'dying out', but was analagous to running out of fuel. If you can say after 300 years of Christianity that it 'would have died' through lack of 'fuel' without Constantine, then surely it would have petered out through lack of fuel since - Constantine's so-called fuel injection was 1700 years ago, and Christianity is still very much alive.

[Muhammad Emmad]

Here are few verses from Quran about Jesus christ:

He [Angel Gabriel] said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure
boy." She (Mary) said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not
been unchaste?" He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will
make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.'"
(Maryam 19:19-21)

Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then
He said to him, "Be," and he was. (Ale-Imraan 3:59)

The Messiah, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; [other] messengers have passed
on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look
how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded. (Al-Maa’idah 5:75)

O People of the Scripture, do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say about Allah
except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His
word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in
Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three (Trinity)"; desist - it is better for you.
Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever
is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
(an-Nisaa’ 4:171)

It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and
prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah ,"
but [instead, he would say], "Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught
of the Scripture and because of what you have studied." (Ale-Imraan 3:79)

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the
messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was
made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it.
They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him,
for certain. Rather, Allah raised him (i.e., body and soul) to Himself (and he is in the
heavens). And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise. (An-Nisaa 4:157-158)

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people,
'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not
for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You
know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You
who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me - to
worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was
among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are,
over all things, Witness. If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if
You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (Al-Maa’idah
5:116-118)

[Thomas R.]

Originally Posted by Rafius

...and Hinduism and Zoroastrianism have been running much longer. So if your claim is that longevity equals truth you'd better convert to Hinduism huh?

As Toni indicated this is pretty clearly not what was meant. The point seems that if it was simply something "running out of gas" an injection from Constantine would not explain its survival.

Basically the point I'd say is that your statement Christianity mostly still exists because of Constantine is likely ignorant and historically dubious. And I think we've shown you why, but rather than given an adequate rebuttal you just kind of go off on tangents. Basically to reiterate my points and related points I can add.

Tiridates III of Armenia - Converted before Constantine.
Sassanid Church/Assyrian Church - Christian church in Rome's enemy, Persia.
St. Thomas Christians of India - Reportedly left the Roman Empire well before Constantine.
Ezana of Aksum - Converted after the Roman Empire, but possibly for unrelated reasons.

Ramsay MacMullen (Yale, not some website, and he seems to be no apologist as he argues Christianity rose for somewhat base reasons) indicates entire towns and possibly millions were Christian by the time of Constantine, including intellectuals.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_Ys...page&q&f=false

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Thomas R.

As Toni indicated this is pretty clearly not what was meant. The point seems that if it was simply something "running out of gas" an injection from Constantine would not explain its survival.

Jeez! What the hell is wrong with you people?? There is nowhere that I have implied that it was in decline or "running out of gas" at the time of Constantine. Where the hell are you getting this from. I'm merely saying that Constantine was the saving of Christianity and had it not been for him, Christianity would have lived and died just as many other religions did. I haven't said that it was in decline or running out of gas at the time Constantine adopted it as the official religion of the Roman Empire...just that it would have, AT SOME TIME died had it not been adopted as the official religion.

[Visvaldis]

How about a summary of the thread...
Most posts run around the OP and go off on irrelevant tangents. Some posts are outright bizarre.
Apparently hardly anyone (especially those who claim to be christians) knows what Jesus taught, although he spent 33 years doing it.
Jesus preached to deaf ears. What a waste!
So how can anyone claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus is that person doesn't have a clue what Jesus taught? Sounds absurd. What I suspected, the christians are mask wearing sanctimonious phonies. And they don't think anyone notices their masquerades.
If you want to know what Jesus taught, don't ask a christian. They don't know.

[Rafius]

Well that's told 'em!!

[Toni Sherente]

Originally Posted by Rafius

I haven't said that it was in decline or running out of gas at the time Constantine adopted it as the official religion of the Roman Empire...just that it would have, AT SOME TIME died had it not been adopted as the official religion.

Oh, I see. You meant that the death of Christianity would have come at some totally indeterminate time in the future - rather like the end of the world, which has been nigh for some time now!

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Toni Sherente

Oh, I see.

No, you don't see....that's the problem.