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One of the reasons for gifting us not to shield assets but rather realizing that your assets may be depleted for health reasons and giving your family something in your healthier years. Getting ill and doing a asset fire sale and hoping you can hold on for six or more years could leave you sick and broke. Some of the people will predecease you like siblings so the time to share us when they can still enjoy it.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55
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FWIW - if you're doing stuff like this for yourself - well I think you're ill-advised to do so - but it's your choice. If you're doing stuff like this for others/strangers - you're probably engaged in the unauthorized practice of law in your state of residence. Robyn
*Exceptions would usually be partnerships where the partner needs certain qualifications - like a legal or medical license - to engage in the business of the partnership.
Not to worry... All blessed (and recommended) by the best Elderlaw attorney I could find... (That took several years and several thousand dollars WASTED). There are truly HORDES of under educated attorneys in the specialty of Eldercare and estate law.
All situated with parnerships flowing to trusts (step up), Provisions for NEW SPOUSES that may arrive to gold dig... All the normal stuff I have been dealing with as volunteer caregiver for over 40 yrs as an uninformed lowly hourly worker.
Getting buy JUST fine and I LOVE to talk law with the lawyers in our complex border state region and love to go sit into classes at nearby L&C, UW and WU. I would never think of PRACTICING law (or medicine) on my volunteer 'charges'.
Not to worry... All blessed (and recommended) by the best Elderlaw attorney I could find... (That took several years and several thousand dollars WASTED). There are truly HORDES of under educated attorneys in the specialty of Eldercare and estate law.
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But, Thanks for the concern.
With due respect, Robyn and Lenora, I also found the remarks a tad dismissive.
We engineers do NOTHING without running through the calculations and corner cases.
One of the reasons for gifting is not to shield assets but rather realizing that your assets may be depleted for health reasons and giving your family something in your healthier years.
Very true but in forums folks seem to need to attribute a reason to human behavior so they can analyze it. If you gave it away you gave it away and if you did it farther than five years out the law tends to not dig into motive for discussion purposes. Some claw backs do occur but as another poster pointed out the amount time years ago it occurred is the determination of intent. It is now a five year determining decision. So NEG if you did it six years ago and it is all gone you are free to pass on, if not wait a few more years. Life does operate that way doesn't it? I think Robyn would agree, that we ought to pity the person expecting to pass in 2019 and gives it away now and finds themselves in 2022 even more broke then they were in 2019. Really rich folks can pass it on because they are trying to stay under estate tax thresholds and still have millions left to pay hospital bills. Those of us with lesser means need to be generous but not to a fault because once you start getting sick, it is time to tighten up.Thats what I was trying to say.
I would suggest that much of this ought to be related to the direction you net worth is heading. If it is shrinking you might not want to be giving anything away. If it is increasing your gifting might want to be a percentage of the annual increase. Other wise you are just expediting the time it takes you to go broke.
Not to worry... All blessed (and recommended) by the best Elderlaw attorney I could find... (That took several years and several thousand dollars WASTED). There are truly HORDES of under educated attorneys in the specialty of Eldercare and estate law.
All situated with parnerships flowing to trusts (step up), Provisions for NEW SPOUSES that may arrive to gold dig... All the normal stuff I have been dealing with as volunteer caregiver for over 40 yrs as an uninformed lowly hourly worker.
Getting buy JUST fine and I LOVE to talk law with the lawyers in our complex border state region and love to go sit into classes at nearby L&C, UW and WU. I would never think of PRACTICING law (or medicine) on my volunteer 'charges'.
But, Thanks for the concern.
"Estate planning" and "elder care" lawyers are 2 different breeds IMO - at least in Florida. The first tend to deal with people who just want to know how to pass on whatever assets they have to the people/institutions they want to have whatever money they have left when they die. The second is basically a buzz word for lawyers who cater mostly to middle class people - people who have some money - but not a lot - who don't want to pay for any care they may need when they get old - and would prefer to see that people like their children get whatever limited amounts they have (generally in the < $500k category).
The former are - in general - much better lawyers than the latter. At least based on the Florida lawyers I know/have come into contact with.
Also - you're kind of a cliche IMO - at least on the surface. A person without a lot of money who has done fairly complicated/exotic things that probably have a pretty bad cost/benefit analysis overall. When simpler might well have been better (at least for most people).
In any event - my words here are simply designed to let people know that even if you've done what's best for you (and I am in no position to judge that without a lot more information) - most people in your situation would be ill advised to do the same. After all - most people don't even know that every partnership has to file a tax return - so does every trust - and partnership and tax accounting aren't exactly pieces of cake.
FWIW - you may love to play/talk lawyer - but I doubt any competent lawyer would care to talk shop with you. Just like the people who come up with search algorithms on the internet would probably have zero interest in talking shop with me. Robyn
I would suggest that much of this ought to be related to the direction you net worth is heading. If it is shrinking you might not want to be giving anything away. If it is increasing your gifting might want to be a percentage of the annual increase. Other wise you are just expediting the time it takes you to go broke.
I think it's extremely age-dependent too. Most older people here are in their 60's - perhaps early 70's. Of our dead parents - the first to die died at 79 (and she was a chain smoker). The other 2 smokers died at age 84 - and the only non-smoker is alive at 95. I think a lot of 65 year olds here can expect to live for at least another 20 years. And who knows what things will cost then - or what individual people might need? And - of course - no one knows what will happen with regard to income flows. Whether they're based on personal investments or government pensions. We don't know what investment returns will be 1 year from now - much less 10-20 years down the road. And pensions from governments other than Detroit may follow suit in terms of Detroit in years to come.
I don't know why people are in a big hurry to give money away. Unless they have been given 6 months to live and hope to make friends with family who they want to take care of them in their final months - family who won't do this in the absence of monetary gifts in advance. If I were in that situation - I'd rather hire a personal nurse.
Do people here think they have to give money away to make friends - or have their children love them - or what????? I really honestly don't get it. My father is 95 - is in decent health for his age - and I manage his money (a not inconsiderable amount)/financial affairs. And - apart from some relatively modest birthday presents and the like - I think his heirs should wait until he's dead to get his money (and - as a POA fiduciary - wouldn't let him give away big chunks now). Robyn
I suspect folks are talking about different things:
Gifting
Shielding assets
Giving Money away
Very different
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(or medicine) on my volunteer 'charges'. 
Isn't that six of one half a dozen of the other?
