Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You of course would know better but your friend could still get a nice surprise. Money should not show up until after all bills are paid and the reasonable possibility of claw back has passed. Medicaid and nursing homes can go back challenge and review. The CPA BIL would know. You can transfer assets and just sit on them.
There is normal estate planning and trying to beat the system. There are ways to use annuities to protect income and still go into a nursing home. The issue in this forum is more centered and moderate income folks trying to do it themselves. What about the more affluent with estate planners and accountants sheltering even more money fully and out in the open and totally legal? I suspect Robyn and others might want to chime in on the difference in estate planning and protecting assets from giving your money away.
Here’s a riddle: When is a government benefit that pays for caregivers, assisted living and a nursing home not a benefit? When hardly any people know they’re entitled to it.
That seems to be the story with a Department of Veterans Affairs benefit called the Aid and Attendance and Housebound Improved Pension benefit, known as A&A, which can cover the costs of caregivers in the home (including sons and daughters who are paid to be caregivers, though not spouses) or be used for assisted living or a nursing home.
The benefit is not insignificant: up to $2,019 monthly for a veteran and spouse, and up to $1,094 for the widow of a veteran.
Quote:
Quote:
And, Ms. Burak warns: “Financial planners at assisted living facilities are putting on seminars about the A&A benefit — but it isn’t out of the goodness of their hearts. They are trolling for residents who have too much money to qualify, to get them to move assets into annuity products that don’t count as income or assets and yield big commissions.” (This is possible because, unlike Medicaid, with its five-year lookback, Veterans Affairs has no lookback on asset transfers.)
The department does not reveal maximum allowable assets. But $80,000 (the house and a car are exempt from this total) seems to be in the ballpark, though someone with more assets could still qualify if expenses were very high, according to Ms. Burak.
Income limits are not set in stone either. But the maximum is around $20,000 to $23,000 after deducting costs for medical expenses, caregivers, assisted living or nursing home fees
"protecting assets" so welfare pays for your nursing home is no different ( morally )than adjusting your method of pay so you are eligible for unemployment compensation and food stamps .
Of course, when posters also advise people to deliberately default on a mortgage and walk away posters who disagree will be told........." leave your moral judgements out of this discussion"
In order to get a veteran benefit you have to have been in the military.
Thus you earned it.
How is welfare earned w/o ever serving in the military ?
Don't get your panties in a bunch I didn't say they were. I am not on your ethical/moral focus on the topic. It is another example of when assets are applied etc etc etc.
Buy a life insurance policy on the parents with the kids owning the policy. Now the parent can spend all they have. Something else to consider is once a parent gives up something like a house there's no reverse mortgage option later on not to also mention the potential tax implications from gifting the home at death.
There is normal estate planning and trying to beat the system. There are ways to use annuities to protect income and still go into a nursing home. The issue in this forum is more centered and moderate income folks trying to do it themselves. What about the more affluent with estate planners and accountants sheltering even more money fully and out in the open and totally legal? I suspect Robyn and others might want to chime in on the difference in estate planning and protecting assets from giving your money away.
I have a fair degree of professional knowledge in this area. But my own personal beliefs (some would call them prejudices) too. Based on personal experiences dealing with late parents/surviving parent and what things cost in different aging circumstances. My father and late FIL took care of our late mothers at home. In all honesty - both have/had money (not a huge amount - but low 7 figures) - but were pretty cheap (and somewhat selfish). Our mothers could have received better end of life care other than at home - but we had no say in those situations.
My husband and I had/have had a big say in elder care for my late FIL and my currently living father. My late FIL spent the last 2 1/2 years of his life here in what is probably the best SNF in the state of Florida. We moved him here from where he lived in North Carolina after he had a stroke (our facility here was 100 times better than anything available where he lived in North Carolina). The place cost about $70k/year back in the early 2000's (it's probably over $90k/year now). It does take Medicaid patients - but only people who have lived locally for 5+ years. Also - there's a long waiting list for Medicaid beds. With money - we were able to arrange for my late FIL to "move in" 48 hours after we were told he would be discharged from his hospital in NC. Without money - my late FIL would have been up "sh** creek".
My late FIL was actually pretty typical. He lived in his SNF for 2 1/2 years before his death - which is very average. OTOH - people with less severe medical problems - who are simply declining as a result of Alzheimer's or similar - can last a lot longer. My late FIL and MIL were also typical. About 50% of all people today will wind up in LTC in a SNF (my late MIL did spend time in SNFs - but only for limited periods of time after hospitalizations).
My father is still alive and living here in an independent living facility that costs about $4k/month now. He moved here from south Florida after selling his house because I - the only daughter - found a more suitable place for him than either of my brothers who live elsewhere (in all honesty - I don't think either of them tried very hard). My father is now 95 - and has been in his place for almost 8 years. He is not sick in any way shape or form. And - unless he drops dead unexpectedly - he will probably wind up in an ALF and/or a SNF - for who knows how long? You can do the math .
Or let's run another scenario. Say I have a stroke next year - when I'm 67. Well I don't want to move into a SNF where the average resident is 84 unless I absolutely have to for medical reasons. So perhaps I'd want to hire health care aides (perhaps CNAs) to help take care of me at home? And how much does that cost?
I think what I'm saying is the more money you have - the more options you have. And - even though most people here would consider me wealthy - in reality - I am what Barrons calls "beer and pretzels" rich. In any event - I don't like the idea of all but the wealthiest people limiting their options by giving away money when they're relatively young. It's one thing to - for example - have a good year in the stock market (like this year) and perhaps doing something a little special for your kids and grand kids with some of your gains - quite another to start giving away big chunks of personal net worth.
BTW - there is a level at which giving while alive might make sense. I'd say perhaps minimum $10 million in liquid net worth (and I'm not there yet!). Also - complicated estate issues can arise at lower net worth levels - especially when one is dealing with something like a family business (farm or otherwise).
I'm familiar with the AA Veteran's stuff because 2 of my cousins impoverished one of my aunts (with all kinds of stupid stuff) to get those benefits while preserving what little money she/my late uncle had for their own benefit. It was/is a very sad case IMO. My late uncle had Alzheimer's for about 15 years - and spent the last years of his life (about 7-8) in pretty disgusting "Alzheimer's places" in California (I visited him in one - and it was revolting). And they were still far were cheap. In any event - my hippy dippy cousins will inherit what little money my aunt and late uncle had - while my aunt lives in a dump and can't afford to buy new tires for her 15 year old car <sigh>. Not a good way to live IMO when you're 92.
I think that perhaps the best advice I can give to seniors here is look out for yourself first. If you don't look out for yourself - who will? Robyn
Our current situation is the best of multiple roads and hopefully will stay that way. We have a solid roadmap and multiple ways to get there. However pensions and SS will hopefully stay as expected within margins. Many more could get there if they planned and crunched numbers earlier.
Or let's run another scenario. Say I have a stroke next year - when I'm 67. Well I don't want to move into a SNF where the average resident is 84 unless I absolutely have to for medical reasons. So perhaps I'd want to hire health care aides (perhaps CNAs) to help take care of me at home? And how much does that cost?
I've been down this road with my mother for years. She is 94 and we've been doing it for 4 years.
At first, I hired a home health agency and paid them $19 an hour. Mom got services 5 days a week for approximately 6 hours a day. With some additional hours when Mom became sick (which actually now seems to declining in frequency), the cost was an average of about $2,500.00 per month.
Last year, the home health agency made some changes and I elected to discontinue their services. I now employ a home health worker directly. I pay her $12.50 per hour with the same sort of schedule. Of course, we now have to pay for worker's compensation and unemployment insurance, as well as make the employer's contribution to her social security. I'm still saving money doing it this way. The person we've hired is particularly responsible and so there are few personnel issues.
Perhaps, your question was rhetorical However, that's been my experience.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
However, that's been my experience.
