So now they want more money for Medicare!

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Some posters here give/have the impression that health care in places like western Europe is cheap - or even free.

But if we look - for example - at a country like Germany - for starters - every employed person pays 15.5% of income (7.3% is paid by employers on behalf of employees by employers)

That's on top of all other taxes. Here in the US - if we had a system like this - it would basically double what is currently paid into FICA.

Also - insurance companies (yes - there are insurance companies in Germany) are allowed to charge more for insurance under certain circumstances. It is kind of unclear how this system will play out in the future (some of these "laws/reforms" are relatively new).

Finally - all employed people pay into the system. Everyone. I am not sure what enforcement mechanisms exist for payment. But Germans in general follow laws. They aren't like the Americans who have been ignoring the ACA mandates (or politicians who passed the ACA without any realistic way to enforce the mandates).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

Expat guide to Germany: health care - Telegraph

BTW - Medicare - which covers about 80% of senior health care costs - currently costs about $800-900 per person per month. The only reason it seems like such a good deal is because seniors on Medicare are heavily subsidized by taxpayers.

There are of course - lots of other issues in this area. But the first hurdle is collecting money from everyone to pay for a system. You can't have (almost) universal coverage without (almost) universal payment. Robyn

Vermont ended up dropping their plan because of the numbers.
They would have needed an 18% payroll tax (11% employer, 7% employee) + a new state tax + keeping the Fed medicaid money.

[Weichert]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Some posters here give/have the impression that health care in places like western Europe is cheap - or even free.

But if we look - for example - at a country like Germany - for starters - every employed person pays 15.5% of income (7.3% is paid by employers on behalf of employees by employers)

That's on top of all other taxes. Here in the US - if we had a system like this - it would basically double what is currently paid into FICA.

Also - insurance companies (yes - there are insurance companies in Germany) are allowed to charge more for insurance under certain circumstances. It is kind of unclear how this system will play out in the future (some of these "laws/reforms" are relatively new).

Finally - all employed people pay into the system. Everyone. I am not sure what enforcement mechanisms exist for payment. But Germans in general follow laws. They aren't like the Americans who have been ignoring the ACA mandates (or politicians who passed the ACA without any realistic way to enforce the mandates).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

Expat guide to Germany: health care - Telegraph

BTW - Medicare - which covers about 80% of senior health care costs - currently costs about $800-900 per person per month. The only reason it seems like such a good deal is because seniors on Medicare are heavily subsidized by taxpayers.

There are of course - lots of other issues in this area. But the first hurdle is collecting money from everyone to pay for a system. You can't have (almost) universal coverage without (almost) universal payment. Robyn

Comparing average ACA premiums + deductibles for someone age 60+ to the better Medicare Advantage plans (at age 65+), the Advantage plans are actually a better deal for participants even if they paid the gov't subsidy (subtracting from it the amount that they are already paying to Medicare).

[pilotpair]

I don't understand why a thread on Medicare increases turned into a pro and con discussion of Obamacare.

I do think Medicare income limits are set too low. Someone who retires from a Fortune 500 company after 25 or more years is likely to have a substantial 401k and have to start withdrawals when s/he turns 70 1/2. The withdrawals are taxed as ordinary income - not capital gains.

The result is a single or couple may well exceed the Medicare limit - $85,000 for single or $170,000 for couples - and pay higher premiums.

It seems crappy to punish people who worked and saved while someone who never worked a day in their life can have Medicaid. Withdrawals should at least be taxed as capital gains. Someone who inherited a ton of money and has municipal bonds won't pay taxes and won't have to pay more for Medicare. Poo.

[Escort Rider]

Originally Posted by pilotpair

I don't understand why a thread on Medicare increases turned into a pro and con discussion of Obamacare.
....................

I don't understand it either, but that is the way most threads in the Retirement Forum (but not limited to the Retirement Forum) drift off-topic. People are so focused on talking about their pet peeve, or their own personal experience, that the actual topic of a thread just doesn't matter to them. It's like, "Here is a chance for me to hold forth!".

If I had to cite the least frequently enforced rule on City-Data, it would be the "No hi-jacking threads" rule. Not that I blame the moderators because how can they be expected to hold back the tide?

Even my present post is off-topic!

[fumbling]

Originally Posted by pilotpair

I don't understand why a thread on Medicare increases turned into a pro and con discussion of Obamacare.

I do think Medicare income limits are set too low. Someone who retires from a Fortune 500 company after 25 or more years is likely to have a substantial 401k and have to start withdrawals when s/he turns 70 1/2. The withdrawals are taxed as ordinary income - not capital gains.

The result is a single or couple may well exceed the Medicare limit - $85,000 for single or $170,000 for couples - and pay higher premiums.

It seems crappy to punish people who worked and saved while someone who never worked a day in their life can have Medicaid. Withdrawals should at least be taxed as capital gains. Someone who inherited a ton of money and has municipal bonds won't pay taxes and won't have to pay more for Medicare. Poo.

They deferred ordinary income so they have to pay ordinary income when they withdraw. People with a substantial 401k shouldn't complain, they're fortunate that Medicare payments are a fraction of their income.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by pilotpair

...Someone who inherited a ton of money and has municipal bonds won't pay taxes and won't have to pay more for Medicare. Poo.

An inheritance per se isn't part of modified adjusted gross income - which is the amount that counts when you're talking about income-based Medicare surcharges. Interest from municipal bonds *is* part of modified adjusted gross income. Robyn