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A friend is delaying her retirement three years because of her now 26 year old daughter. Her daughter starts college but then drops out after a few months, moves to a larger city for a job but then quits, had a baby, gets her mom to buy her a car, and tries college again or another job with the same results. The daughter and her little girl are now living with mom and she has seen a therapist for a year now but does not seem to make much progress - I don't know if the problem is depression or what. My friend has borrowed money to pay for all of this and is delaying retirement until she can pay off the loans.
I see this frequently with single mothers in their 60's and 70's. Adult never-do-well children in their 30's and 40's, living in the household, often with 100% support. Family living arrangements are their business, but I think the children are being done a disservice. At this late date, the damage is irreversible. If the parent was of the means where the children could continue said lifestyle with an inheritance, it would be less of a problem. Unless there's money in the mattress, I don't see this as the case. The money stops when the parent dies. Suddenly you have 50-somethings with little or no work history, cast out into the world, and likely seeking the taxpayer's dime.
I think the difference today is with the number of single parent households, and the bleeding heart parenting that goes with it. For those of us raised with a World War II father in the household, such behavior was unthinkable. They wouldn't throw you out at 18, but life would be made so unbearable, that the realities of the outside world paled in comparison. It was an easy decision.
While there's some merit to this, a big difference today is that it is much harder to even get jobs that will pay for a reasonable existance. Not everyone is capable of working 80 hours per week.
The theory is sound but pretty much every job that actually needs doing has someone doing it.
This is especially so at the no/low skill end of the job spectrum.
Even if these people have some truly useful skill...
it's had to find any place that doesn't already have more than enough already doing it.
Sorry, but this is irrational thinking driven by looking to closely at the overall job market ... and not closely enough at the fact that each individual only needs ONE (or two) jobs. For example, in Destin, there are at least 50-restaurants in town with 'help wanted' signs out. They can't get enough people in this area and often even bring in groups of J1 students from Europe and the Ukraine to fill the jobs. (These are $12-$15 wait staff jobs with good tips).
Those who dwell on the notion: "I can't find a job, There are no jobs, Nobody will hire me" generally become a self-fulfilling prophecy and expect the world to take care of them. Those who say, "Unless I find a job and support myself, nobody else will!" -do what they have to do and get on in life.
When our kids were in their twenties we had to take the leap and do the "sink or swim" Plan B. We used the local program of Tough Love and it saved all four of us from sinking the ship.
It's a terribly frightening thing to do when you've considered yourself the rock in young people's unstable lives. But we took a look around and realized that a lot of people our age were getting caught up in having to relive parenting all over again with their grandchildren while their own adult children played, or went to prison, or whatever poor choices they had made.
Enabling is done out of a misguided concept of love and instead of helping others grow strong and learn to stand on their own, no matter what their struggle, it actually cripples the person it is supposed to help. They don't learn from their mistakes and develop the idea that they can always depend on someone to scoop them up every time they fall.
The fatal flaw for an enabler, if we are deeply and truly honest with ourselves, is that we have an overinflated sense of importance. How insulting is that to people we choose to help? "They couldn't make it without me." Or perhaps, even more painful, "They won't love me if I don't do this." Facing that unpleasant truth about myself helped me become willing to make some changes.
Truth be, if you chose the lifestyle of enabling you are in for some pretty big blows to that ego while the world tries to teach you to right-size your twisted view of yourself. That's the voice of experience speaking and it will truly do you in trying to take care of other adults who don't really need you.
It will deplete your bank account, will probably be taken for granted and will never fulfill that need for confirmation of your goodness as a human being. It can even cause failing health.
Our kids have their ups and downs just like they would if they were still at home. They know we love them and will provide all the emotional support they can ask for. I respect their adulthood enough not to feel responsible for their mistakes.
Well, I guess he raised them to be like that. The son seems to me the bigger idiot, hey, go ahead and have some kids regardless if you can afford it or not...there are legal ramifications to letting parasites like these live in your house, the time to call the cops to them is when they first show up.
"Parasites?"
I think having another kid when their situation is so unstable is shortsighted, but why would this be an issue to "call the cops?" I was in a situation last year where my job was extremely shaky. There is no way I would have even thought of trying to have a baby under such conditions. For what it's worth, the son appears to have been retraining in something - he mentioned he passed a certification where he was only one of a handful of a people in this area to have the cert. He's trying to do better.
This uncle has always worked for either my grandfather or for another uncle who runs a business. I don't remember him ever working for a regular employer. His wife had a good nursing job with a county government, and I'd say she was the main breadwinner.
What's most concerning to me is that uncle #2, the employer of the one in this pickle, is not paying attention to his own business and has so many of his own personal problems going on right now that I can't see how it doesn't impact his clients and his employees. If uncle #2 goes down, uncle #1 goes down with him, along with anyone else his employees are supporting. Uncle #1 is in a far, far worse mess. He has to net $10,000 monthly personally just to meet alimony, child support, house payments for the two ex's, and their cell phones. That's before you get into any of his own personal expenses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton
Sorry, but this is irrational thinking driven by looking to closely at the overall job market ... and not closely enough at the fact that each individual only needs ONE (or two) jobs. For example, in Destin, there are at least 50-restaurants in town with 'help wanted' signs out. They can't get enough people in this area and often even bring in groups of J1 students from Europe and the Ukraine to fill the jobs. (These are $12-$15 wait staff jobs with good tips).
Those who dwell on the notion: "I can't find a job, There are no jobs, Nobody will hire me" generally become a self-fulfilling prophecy and expect the world to take care of them. Those who say, "Unless I find a job and support myself, nobody else will!" -do what they have to do and get on in life.
I have no idea what the two women are doing regarding finding other employment, but they were in the medical field and had worked at this employer for years. There are plenty of jobs available here in retail, food service, and call centers, but most are part-time with no benefits in the $8-$12/hr range. They may very well be pulling more in from UI than they would in some sort of survival job.
The economy here sucks. They may not be trying hard enough, but there isn't much in the way of decent work here either.
At the moment, uncle and aunt are picking up the slack. I'm fairly certain they don't have the means to be sustaining this without dipping significantly into savings for long.
I know the male cousin's problems have been somewhat chronic, but the two women have seemed to do better.
Last edited by Serious Conversation; 04-03-2017 at 02:47 PM..
...in Destin, there are at least 50-restaurants in town with 'help wanted' signs out.
Those who dwell on the notion: "I can't find a job, There are no jobs, Nobody will hire me"
generally become a self-fulfilling prophecy and expect the world to take care of them.
I don't disagree with you... at least in principle.
Do you suppose people in TN near the OP should pack up and move to Florida?
How many thousands of them are you seeking to have move to your town?
How do you suppose your town will be different ...six months or six years later?
I don't disagree with you... at least in principle.
Do you suppose people in TN near the OP should pack up and move to Florida?
How many thousands of them are you seeking to have move to your town?
How do you suppose your town will be different ...six months or six years later?
I don't want to get into citing lots of local numbers, but our local MSAs unemployment rate bottomed out in the mid 4% range last summer. It's now back up to 5.9% as of January, the latest month for which full data is available, and is probably over 6% now if the previous trend held. By contrast, Nashville is in the low 4% range.
We also have the lowest median weekly wage in the state. One of the previous posters lives near metro Knoxville. Our median weekly wage is only about 2/3 that of Knoxville's, and the cost of living is essentially equal.
My cousins aren't in high skill jobs. They've never lived anywhere else, and frankly, they'd probably end up in a bigger mess by moving to another area for some low end job because they'd lose the free childcare and other support system aspects they do have. I don't think moving to a healthier area is in the cards for this bunch.
I think that everyone is different when it comes to these situations. I have been very fortunate in that both my kids (29 and 36) got good degrees, good jobs and are making their own way in the world. Because of how they have worked to succeed and how they have made themselves independent, I would be inclined to help out in a crisis. Neither of them have an entitlement mentality.
But I do see people (e.g. two of my wife's siblings) who are what I call 'users'. They take financial advantage of their other siblings and they take advantage of one brother who is very 'handy' for constant projects. The two of them are housed by their siblings and, despite the fact that one of those providing the housing needs to be able to sell his home to fund his retirement (downsize), shows no inclination to move. This is not a battle I want to be part of so I button my lip and say nothing. I'm just glad that I have two very responsible kids.
My cousins aren't in high skill jobs. They've never lived anywhere else, and frankly,
they'd probably end up in a bigger mess by moving to another area for some low end job
because they'd lose the free childcare and other support system aspects they do have.
I don't think moving to a healthier area is in the cards for this bunch.
I don't think so either. Nor for the 20-40 Million or so similar others out there.
As to beach town and similar jobs in particular... those $15/hr jobs are seasonal.
Those employers bring in J1's BECAUSE they leave when the season is over.
Several previous generations up to and including the Silents were able to do quite well in blue collar America with a mere HS education.
The Boomers started out being able to pull it off, but by the time the late 1950s cohorts were in their prime, it was no longer true.
Problem is, the Boomers in that HS educated blue collar world did not teach their kids to take a different path. Now, their kids are out there on the job market (or not).
There needs to be a different path than the "Hillbilly Elegy" but the reality on the ground has not caught up with this fact.
Thank goodness the last actual Hillbilly in my line was 4 generations ago. Then, a new generation came along and entered a different world. I cannot imagine being stuck in the cycles upon cycles in the hollers.
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