The OFFICIAL THREAD for San Diego Politics and Propositions: READ HERE FIRST (Banning: how much, weddings)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by hanna_house

Oh thank you for this! It is so misleading to imply that somehow blacks received their right to vote from the supreme court overturning the will of the people. Let me take you back to school. Ever heard of the Constitution? Well voting rights were already established in the constitution, which blacks were entitled to once they were freed from slavery. It was the Democrats who fought against their rights when they regained control of the legislatures in southern States. They began to repeal State civil rights protections and to abrogate existing federal civil rights laws. They used measures such as poll taxes, literacy tests, white-only pirmaries, physical intimidation and violence to name a few. For this reason the 14th and 15th amendment were added to the constitution, which had nothing to do with the courts.

Even decades after the passage of the 14th and 15th Amendments, many Democrats still opposed those protections and some of those efforts to suppress black voting were successful. It wasn't until the 1965 that we got the Voting Rights Act to help end the efforts to block the black vote once and for all. This was done by proper channels of legislation through the Legislative branch, which is NOT the Supreme Court! So if you want to be technical, they had the right to vote all along but the Democrats are the ones who tried to once again obstruct justice! If you want to know the role of the Supreme Court, I can educate you on that as well.

Are you trying to make some arguments against democrats or something? Because those parties have switched obviously from then and either way its irrelevant to the topic. I don't care which party does what, I am speaking about the issue of denying rights and having a separate form of marriage for blacks.

So you do have a point with the how blacks got those rights through legislation, which I guess could be a route Gay Marriage proponents could take. But I guess I was thinking more of Brown vs Board of Education with the whole separate but equal thing being ruled against. That's how I see the marriage and civil union thing, it's separate but not equal. That is a decision the majority of people in the South did not want but judges did itanyways. That's kind of how I see this.

The fact that you believe marriage is just between a man is woman is fine but why deny marriage to others who don't share that view if it doesn't actually affect you in any real way? I honestly just don't see what the big deal is when it doesn't affect you in anyway. It doesn't take away from the love of your marriage or families. It doesn't harm or change anything, so why make such a big deal about allowing 2-5% of the population have the right to marry? This is basically the thing that I just don't get with regards to this. I totally understand people's views and how they don't like this idea, the picture of two men or women married is still kind of weird to me too, but it doesn't affect me or anything overall. Live and let live and keep govt out of people's personal lives.

[AnUnidentifiedMale]

I think hanna_house might be Sarah Palin incognito.

I've calmed down about the same-sex marriage thing, and I as posted on a different topic, the system is working as it's supposed to work. I'm happy to see that challenges to the new amendment are already being filed. It'll be fascinating to watch how it all plays out.

It's just a matter of time before same-sex marriages are fully legal in California - and to quote Gavin Newsom - "whether you like it or not!"

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by sav858

The fact that you believe marriage is just between a man is woman is fine but why deny marriage to others who don't share that view if it doesn't actually affect you in any real way?.

Isn't that why the union was invented?

Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale

It's just a matter of time before same-sex marriages are fully legal in California - and to quote Gavin Newsom - "whether you like it or not!"

That guy caused it to swing the other way, nice job Gavin rolleyes here

A friend of mine was really torn up about this and that disturbs me but the union needs to be worked on to give everyone a compromise otherwise this is going to be in the courts forever.

[jksouthbay88]

Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale

I think hanna_house might be Sarah Palin incognito.

I've calmed down about the same-sex marriage thing, and I as posted on a different topic, the system is working as it's supposed to work. I'm happy to see that challenges to the new amendment are already being filed. It'll be fascinating to watch how it all plays out.

It's just a matter of time before same-sex marriages are fully legal in California - and to quote Gavin Newsom - "whether you like it or not!"

Very very true.Just like how many many and I mean many new voters in every state voted for Obama,you will have many new voters that just want to vote for a prop 8 type of thing in the future.Plus 8 was a yes vote by a few percentage pts.What I don't understand is that we live in a "majority society"when it comes to voting and the majority of voters said "no same-sex marriage"for now.I understand all the protest and all that but no means no.Plus lots of these people that I see on CNN and MSNBC are climbing on Cop Cars,throwing things at riot police and ripping down traffic lights?Cesar Chavez and MLK Jr never used violence for rights and these people look like IDIOTSin front of the cops,TV and the entire U.S.If you want rights,talk em out,let it be known to the people;don't pull down traffic lights and provoke riot police to beat you because that will get you nowhere real fast.

-My 2 cents.

[f_m]

Originally Posted by jksouthbay88

Very very true.Just like how many many and I mean many new voters in every state voted for Obama,you will have many new voters that just want to vote for a prop 8 type of thing in the future.Plus 8 was a yes vote by a few percentage pts.What I don't understand is that we live in a "majority society"when it comes to voting and the majority of voters said "no same-sex marriage"for now.I understand all the protest and all that but no means no.

Consider this, making a change to the CA constitution only required a majority vote, but many changes in spending taxes/fees require a 2/3 vote. So it's easier to change the state constitution than change some fees/taxes.

[GoingBackEast]

Never mind, found it ! She won over all the nasty Boling mailings. Whew. Nasty didn't work this year, huh?

[GoingBackEast]

To quote you "By the way, I would hardly compare 2 guys wanting to intrude upon the institution of marriage to the black movement. Apparently black people don't think so either because they voted in favor of prop 8 by a vast majority! Don't insult their fight. How can you compare an entire race to sexual orientation? Being black is a fact, not an option and not based on actions or lifestyle. Give it up!"

Hope you can handle a black family running the country honey. Ever heard of miscegenation ? Look it up. Explore the racist vitriol around that one. See how your words smack of the 1940's.
Your language is the exact language used by insecure, trashy white folks against blacks in the past. Do some scientific research (remember that concept? 9 years ago it had meaning and it will again now) to teach yourself that, in fact, being gay ain't anything more than a fact and not an option, any more than being a hate filled bigot is. You just don't have a choice dear, and that's okay. We understand. We can love the sinner, but not the sin. But you lost more than you gained on Nov 4 2008. You will also see prop 8 thrown down the toilet eventually. You know what the DSM lV is (if not, teach yourself)? Look up homophobia in it. It is listed as a mental illness.
And I just came here to find out some San Diego City Council results.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Isn't that why the union was invented?

Separate but equal is not equal. And you quoted me yet did not actually answer the question in the quote. I've answered your question now answer mine: How does gay marriage effect you in any personal way? I've asked this question many times and no one has given me a REAL answer, which to me just shows it doesn't and it's just personal prejudices that people are too afraid to admit to.

I honestly just don't get how this affects any marriages at all. So you apparently support government intrusion into people's personal lives and telling them how to live??

[Suzer]

There IS no answer to the question, "How does gay marriage affect my (heterosexual) marriage?" There is no answer. The closest I ever came to hearing an answer was, in essence, "It's going to make it much harder to propagandize my kids to reject homosexuality on moral grounds if marriage between gays is socially sanctioned".

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by MisterMark

You know what? Yes, I am closed-minded to people who want to restrict the freedom of others - especially freedoms that have been legitimately granted by the California Supreme Court.

You're jumping to conclusions by suggesting that I see anyone who disagrees with me as a bigot. That's not true at all. But what DOES seem to be true is that, you think you have a right to criminalize something just because YOU disagree with it. It's similar to the abortion argument: If you don't like abortions, then don't have one! If you don't like same-sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex!

Why do you think it should be up to you to decide who someone else marries?

People and cultures evolve, so to say that marriage should only be between a man and a woman is a red herring. There was a time when blacks where only counted as 3/5 as a person; in fact, it was written into our Constitution, but over time, attitudes changed.

You still haven't explained how same-sex marriage threatens you and your community. Again, same-sex marriage has been legal in California for a few months now. Tell us how it has negatively affected you, and what do you expect to gain by removing this right?

sav585 took the words right out of my mouth when he said that you might feel differently if you had a gay son or daughter. Do you have gay relatives and have you talked with them about your position on this issue?

When you say that interracial marriage has been around for a "long, long time", did you know that, until 1967, interracial marriage was still illegal in many states? That wasn't that long ago.

Homosexuality and interracial relationships are two separate things. When interracial marriage became legal, it did not change the fundamental definition of marriage as it has been known since time began. You cannot change the color of your skin but you can change your sexual orientation (I personally know of people who have walked away from homosexuality). Banning interracial marriage was wrong and I'm glad that was overturned. I do not agree with changing the fundamental definition of marriage to accommodate same sex couples, even if I had children who chose the gay lifestyle.