The OFFICIAL THREAD for San Diego Politics and Propositions: READ HERE FIRST (Carlsbad: university, legal)

[NYSD1995]

In order to contain the discussion about San Diego political issues and propositions, please post anything on those topics here and only here. All other threads on these topics will be closed. Any new threads created on these subjects will be deleted.

Note that this thread will be for the most part, unmoderated, and will be closed shortly after the election.

Thanks,
Sass

[sav858]

All I want to say is I'm pretty pissed about how many "No on Prop D" signs that have been stolen in PB, including my own and two others on just my side of the block. I've noticed a lot of other "No on Prop D" signs missing too. The Yes on D people can't handle the fact that the vast majority of beach residents in PB and MB oppose this ban and so they steal our signs and our voice. Drive up and down Ingraham and notice how many No on D signs there are.

One of the members of the PB Town Council and Yes in D committee member was caught red handed stealing "No on Prop D" signs. Even a local news station did a story on this:


YouTube - No On Prop D Sign Theft Exposed! - No On Prop D - San Diego


This whole Yes on D campaign is being funded by a few wealthy homeowners and a few select businesses while most of "No on Prop D" support has been funded mainly by residents. I just hope people realize how dirty the Yes on D campaign and how they are trying to suppress opponents voices and should think about that when they go to vote.

YouTube - NOonPropD's Channel

[Suzer]

I went to a candlelight vigil for "No on 8" last Saturday on University Ave. It was amazing how energized the crowd was, and at the same time cooperative and respectful. I left hoarse after chanting a variety of slogans to passing motorists right along with thousands of other like minded folks. The crowd stretched nearly all the way down the business district of Hillcrest, I burnt my whole candle down to a nub. Even if this hate-mongering succeeds, I take comfort in the fact that many people committed time, money, and a great deal of passion pursuing marriage equality and keeping the California Constitution a document that ensures rights, not taking them away. Funny thing, I didn't see a single car with a No on 8 sticker the entire time I was there.

[MisterMark]

Thank you for your commitment to equality, Suzer. Unfortunately, I'm predicting that the amendment will pass. I sure hope I'm wrong about that.

When civil rights are left up to the general public, bigotry almost always wins.

[Suzer]

I'm pretty resigned to the fact that the bigots will have the last word - this round. I couldn't agree more - I can't think of a single civil rights issue that was favorably decided by a vote.

[sav858]

That is a great thing they are holding rally's and that some of you attended but I just wish they would have had more if those No on 8 rally's in North County. Having it in Hillcrest is basically preaching to the choir. Everyday I drive up to Carlsbad, I saw a Yes on 8 sign in the median of the freeway; someone had stopped in the emergency land and placed an Yes on 8 sign in the middle of the freeway! When I exit Cannon there are Yes on 8 signs on both sides of the off ramp, on my drive to work there are Yes on 8 signs all over the median. I realize its to be expected in North County but it would have been nice to see more No on 8 support where it might actually change some people's minds. Either way I hope 8 does not pass, maybe if people put themselves in Jerry Sander's or Dick Cheney's shoes they might feel differently about this and reevaluate their position; how could anyone deny their child the right to marry? I just drove by the corner of Ingraham and Garnett Ave and on all four corner's there were No on 8 protesters, it was a welcome sight from what I see day in and day out in NC.

[MisterMark]

Thanks for that bit of good news, sav. I drove through North County today and couldn't believe the number of "Yes On 8" bumper stickers that I saw. What a bunch of closed-minded bigots. Why do they think they have the right to decide who can marry who? You just know that these same people would have voted against interracial marriage 40 years ago, and they would have come up with the same stupid reasons to back up their arguments - arguments that will seem archaic (and rightly so) 20 years from now.

It's sad, really. Most of them simply hate gays, but would never admit it. They come up with all kinds of other things like, "Oh, we just don't want to redefine marriage", or "We want to respect the religious organizations who disagree with same-sex marriage". It's malarkey. We know it, and they know it too.

[bunky3301]

Originally Posted by MisterMark

Thanks for that bit of good news, sav. I drove through North County today and couldn't believe the number of "Yes On 8" bumper stickers that I saw. What a bunch of closed-minded bigots. Why do they think they have the right to decide who can marry who? You just know that these same people would have voted against interracial marriage 40 years ago, and they would have come up with the same stupid reasons to back up their arguments - arguments that will seem archaic (and rightly so) 20 years from now.

It's sad, really. Most of them simply hate gays, but would never admit it. They come up with all kinds of other things like, "Oh, we just don't want to redefine marriage", or "We want to respect the religious organizations who disagree with same-sex marriage". It's malarkey. We know it, and they know it too.

Speaking of closed minded.....maybe you should take a look in the mirror sometime. Your doing alot of name calling and assuming. Like I've said in other posts its not about hate or bigotry. It's about what one believes marriage should be...period. You being Gay have a different opinion then others who simple don't support same sex marriage.

But you should read the tone of your own post , so much hate within yourselves. Its as if anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?

Also to compare this propostion to the Civil Rights movement for minorities is insulting and you need not lump everyone together , it just shows how little you know about arguing your point of view. Respectively. Also interacial marriage has been around for a long, long time....maybe your a little to young to know that?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by bunky3301

Speaking of closed minded.....maybe you should take a look in the mirror sometime. Your doing alot of name calling and assuming. Like I've said in other posts its not about hate or bigotry. It's about what one believes marriage should be...period. You being Gay have a different opinion then others who simple don't support same sex marriage.

But you should read the tone of your own post , so much hate within yourselves. Its as if anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?

Also to compare this propostion to the Civil Rights movement for minorities is insulting and you need not lump everyone together , it just shows how little you know about arguing your point of view. Respectively. Also interacial marriage has been around for a long, long time....maybe your a little to young to know that?

I just want to start off by saying I am not defending anything MisterMark has said with regards to Prop 8 to you or in general. If you're gay this is going to be an emotional issue and I understand how some people who may not be so extreme or partisan normally would get so with this issue.

Both Mayor Jerry Sanders and VP Dick Cheney have reversed their opposition to gay marriage because of their lesbian daughters. I always think it is a good thing to put yourself in someone else's shoes to at least gain perspective on an issue. If this goes against your fundamental religious beliefs then so be it, I cannot and will not argue against people's deeply held religious beliefs. With that said, I just want to ask you one simple question: If your child was gay would you support allowing them to get married or not?? YES or NO? I've asked this question on the CA forum and only one person responded and instead of actually answering the question tried to twist it around on me and never actually answered it at all and refused to answer it after I asked it again. This is a simple yes or no answer, feel free to explain your answer too whether it be yes or no. I am just trying to understand where opposing views are coming from. Some Yes on 8 people are straight up bigots and haters and I don't even bother with them b/c its pointless. But people like yourself, who may have different political opinions than me, I do not consider bigots and am just trying to see where they are coming from so at the very least I can agree to disagree. So I ask for you to answer honestly, if your child was gay would you support them being allowed to get married or not? YES or NO?

[MisterMark]

Originally Posted by bunky3301

Speaking of closed minded.....maybe you should take a look in the mirror sometime. Your doing alot of name calling and assuming. Like I've said in other posts its not about hate or bigotry. It's about what one believes marriage should be...period. You being Gay have a different opinion then others who simple don't support same sex marriage.

But you should read the tone of your own post , so much hate within yourselves. Its as if anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?

Also to compare this propostion to the Civil Rights movement for minorities is insulting and you need not lump everyone together , it just shows how little you know about arguing your point of view. Respectively. Also interacial marriage has been around for a long, long time....maybe your a little to young to know that?

You know what? Yes, I am closed-minded to people who want to restrict the freedom of others - especially freedoms that have been legitimately granted by the California Supreme Court.

You're jumping to conclusions by suggesting that I see anyone who disagrees with me as a bigot. That's not true at all. But what DOES seem to be true is that, you think you have a right to criminalize something just because YOU disagree with it. It's similar to the abortion argument: If you don't like abortions, then don't have one! If you don't like same-sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex!

Why do you think it should be up to you to decide who someone else marries?

People and cultures evolve, so to say that marriage should only be between a man and a woman is a red herring. There was a time when blacks where only counted as 3/5 as a person; in fact, it was written into our Constitution, but over time, attitudes changed.

You still haven't explained how same-sex marriage threatens you and your community. Again, same-sex marriage has been legal in California for a few months now. Tell us how it has negatively affected you, and what do you expect to gain by removing this right?

sav585 took the words right out of my mouth when he said that you might feel differently if you had a gay son or daughter. Do you have gay relatives and have you talked with them about your position on this issue?

When you say that interracial marriage has been around for a "long, long time", did you know that, until 1967, interracial marriage was still illegal in many states? That wasn't that long ago.