Another Occupied City: Oakland (buyers, prices, military)

[04kL4nD]

I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that a lot us of SF Forumers wish you'd occupy your thoughts/opinions somewhere else

[rimmerama]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that a lot us of SF Forumers wish you'd occupy your thoughts/opinions somewhere else

I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that your posts are generally pointless and inane.

I'm sorry that what I have to say, you have no logical or constructive retort for. Perhaps instead of getting mad at me for making points you can't refute, you should think about why your positions on subjects are untenable.

[majoun]

I hope that the California anti-gang statutes, which are so broad to the point that virtually any group of people can be labelled as a "criminal street gang", are not trotted out by overzealous prosecutors to label Occupy Oakland, Occupy SF, or any other Occupy movement as a "gang" therefore enabling all sorts of enhanced prosecutions of protestors. I'm not sure if the ghost of Ed Meese still stalks the Alameda County DA's office - I really hope not. But no sophistic trick by overzealous prosecutors trying to make a name for themselves would surprise me.

OTOH, if Goldman Sachs were to be declared a "criminal gang" and therefore subject to anti-gang statutes, that would be quite fitting. I think they'd realistically fit into the organized crime category more than the street gang category, however.

[nullgeo]

OWS is not an organization ... it has no leadership -- or membership ... it is, so far, an extemporaneous, grass-roots expression of general frustration with, and mistrust of, a state of extreme societal imbalance of wealth and how that imbalance threatens the middle class. As such, "it", OWS, can't apply for permits ... this movement is a coincidentally synergistic action of individuals. Individuals, in this country, are free to use public spaces and express themselves with free speech without special permissions -- bound by all laws and ordinances concerning individual conduct in public places, of course. And the police are completely empowered to arrest individuals for any violations.

The question is: when large, unorganized groups of individuals act in a concerted manner, without leadership, what should government's reaction be: ignore popular expression, suppress it, condemn it, destroy it, protect it, embrace it, simply tolerate it temporarily, or seek to learn from it and correct the root of discord? If one believes that the role of government is to serve its people's interests, then to ignore, suppress, condemn, or destroy are antithetical responses. If one believes the government serves at/for the pleasure of only one special sub-group of citizens -- in this case: the uber-wealthy -- then destruction of the protestors, one and all, is the answer. This is the dilemma of our officials today: how to serve the interests of all the citizens -- both in terms of immediate public safety, and in recognition of the validity of the threat the extemporaneous uprising is identifying. To crush the protestors kills the legitimate protest of the threat to the nation they are addressing as individuals collectively assembled.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by majoun

OTOH, if Goldman Sachs were to be declared a "criminal gang" and therefore subject to anti-gang statutes, that would be quite fitting. I think they'd realistically fit into the organized crime category more than the street gang category, however.

And the Occupy movement is getting way too sidetracked by unrelated issues that their focus seems to have veered too far away from going after the Goldman Sachses and AIGs of the world).

No, instead they have turned Jean Quan into the antichrist, even though she largely agrees with their positions on probably every issue.

Not that she is totally immune from anger. The city and OPD handled it very badly. They should have told the Occupy folks to go over to the neighboring Federal towers in downtown Oakland and camp out there because the federal government's inaction against their corporate puppeteers is really the root of the problem here and in virtually every other problem we have at the national level right now.

Everything goes back to the top. Our President, Congress and unscrupulous corporations are the real culprits.

In fact, the OCCUPY movement should march on the White House and the US Capitol building and camp out there until changes are made to campaign finance and political contribution laws.

Until that happens, we are fighting a losing battle and blaming the wrong people along the way.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

...
Everything goes back to the top. Our President, Congress and unscrupulous corporations are the real culprits.

In fact, the OCCUPY movement should march on the White House and the US Capitol building and camp out there until changes are made to campaign finance and political contribution laws...

I agree with many of your posts, but I do not agree that the President and Congress are the real culprits. I don't believe they have the actual power to be the real problem. They simply serve at the pleasure of the oligarchy that manipulates them:
"Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws." — Mayer Amsched Rothchild, a prominent European banker in the eighteenth century

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I agree with many of your posts, but I do not agree that the President and Congress are the real culprits. I don't believe they have the actual power to be the real problem. They simply serve at the pleasure of the oligarchy that manipulates them:
"Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws." — Mayer Amsched Rothchild, a prominent European banker in the eighteenth century

You and I basically see eye to eye for the most part.

I totally agree that our leaders serve at the pleasure of the oligarchy that manipulates them.

Its even more disturbing that the media is so controlled by these corporate elite, that they will only continue to showcase candidates who are just new versions of the last guy.

Nothing ever changes.

In fact, we've seen in the last decade or so that they can go from bad to worse and we still dont seem to hit bottom yet.

I dont know what we can do when everything seems so stacked up against the American people.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Its even more disturbing that the media is so controlled by these corporate elite, that they will only continue to showcase candidates who are just new versions of the last guy.

Republicans really need to do better than their last guy. These clowns they keep trotting out for the next election are burying any confidence even the most ardent party supporter might have left in the efficacy of our political process. Another reason why it ain't just lefties out there in the parks and plazas.

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

The photo is not from Ogawa Plaza... the protest has moved around the downtown between the plaza and Lake Merritt. mY best guess is Broadway.

The Plaza was formerly called city hall plaza and was expanded when local streets were converted to pedestrian use.

The plaza is also home to the last remaining ancient Oakland Oak tree at city hall... it has endured much over the years and the arborist tending it has implemented extra ordinary precautions many years to preserve this magnificent tree, the symbol of the city. One measure is prohibiting foot traffic under the canopy...

Just how many ""Emergencies"" have the Police had to resond to in the park that they did not create. It is arguably the safest place in Oakland

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

... as contrasted with the unapologetic sociopathic raping of the economy by the oligarchs? ...

Yes, those oligarchs who "forced" people into taking loans for homes that they shouldn't have received in the first place.