Moved to the Bay for 1 year from out of state, moved back. My review of it. (San Francisco: 2015, rent)

[AZJD]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Fine, so do a mortgage and get a 400k (or whatever) two bedroom condo. Same amount of spending.

No, it leaves you living in the Bay Area. That's priceless. Again, I'll take a shack in the Bay Area, New York City, Tokyo, London, or Paris over a single family home in MiddleOfNowhere, Arizona. There are things more important to me than how large my living space is, and you only get them in certain places. Sure, you can have a nice building if you live in LongNoseHairs, Kansas. But you can't do anything except what you have in your nice house. That's the opposite of what I want.

Eh, 2000-3000, something like that. I'll go with 2200, sure.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you make 100k, you should be able to get a mortgage on a 300-500k place, which would be a two or three bedroom condo. Or you can rent for about the same amount. It's not "living like that". It's a two or three bedroom condo, no roommates, good neighborhood.

https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-calc...affordability/

According to the above, 100k = 460k mortgage.

So something like this is middle class housing:

573 Valley Forge Way #1, Campbell, CA For Sale | Trulia.com

440k. Trulia says the mortgage payment would be under 2000/month.

I think your issue is that you insist on a huge house and a huge plot of land with a big spa and a big swimming pool and yard workers. I had all that growing up in Silicon Valley, but we were higher than middle class. We were upper class. Around here that's upper class housing. A one million dollar house is not middle class housing.

Middle class housing around here is a two or three bedroom condo or apartment. A two bedroom one if you have one kid, or two kids that are the same gender (so they can share a room). Three bedrooms if you have two kids or four kids of the same gender. You can afford that on 100k at 1/3 of your income after taxes.

You're assuming no debt, no car payment, no student loans.

And 20% down.

How many 30-35 year olds have $100,000 liquid cash laying around and also no debt at all? I'm fortunate that if I sold my houses I could put 20% down on a place in the Bay Area.

But I won't. Its like paying $60k for a 1986 Honda Accord.

I'm a $60, 90 minute flight to the Bay.

[AZJD]

I just looked up that 800sq ft 2 bedroom, 1 bath condo for $440k.

Lol!!!

I wouldn't pay $50k for that.

Oh, and Hoa fees are part of a mortgage qualification debt/income ratio requirement. So further reducing affordability.

Dude, just stop. Stuff you post just does not apply to 99% of families that don't want to struggle and care about their future.

[boulder2015]

Originally Posted by AZJD

I just looked up that 800sq ft 2 bedroom, 1 bath condo for $440k.

Lol!!!

I wouldn't pay $50k for that.

Oh, and Hoa fees are part of a mortgage qualification debt/income ratio requirement. So further reducing affordability.

Dude, just stop. Stuff you post just does not apply to 99% of families that don't want to struggle and care about their future.

Thank you. I have no idea what neutrinos point is, but he is a broken record. He actually HURTS his own cause with his posts. He is in for a world of hurt when he wants to retire. Cant inherit the spot on dads floor in an apt. Has zero financial sense but comes on here to lecture people who DO with his nonsense. He ignores people with clearly stated goals: savings, retirement, decent schools and replaces their desires with scenarios to make him feel better about his life of squalor, long commutes, and minimal future prospects.

[AZJD]

https://www.redfin.com/AZ/Gilbert/21.../home/27556178

Here's what $500k get you here.

A large waterfront custom home with a pool and jacuzzi, on the lake with a boat, in a master planned lakefront community. Your measly $87/month HOA gets you access to a 30,000sq ft waterfront clubhouse, gym, tennis courts, indoor racquet ball courts, conference and banquet space, an Olympic pool, a waterfront beach lagoon, tons of family and kids programs, holiday boat parade, food truck nights in the neighborhood, etc.

An A rated elementary school.

#2 safest large city over 200,000 people in the entire United States (#1 is Irvine,Ca).

Cheap property taxes.

And you can save for retirement, save for vacations, go out for dinners to a ton of great restaurants.


And visit the Bay Area for $90/rountrip on Allegiant Airlines from Phoenix to Oakland.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by AZJD

I had a $275 water bill last month on my tiny house in Concord. Just laughable.

They bill you every two months for water in Concord. Either way that's still abnormally high, I've never had a water bill more than $150, and again that's for 2 months worth.

[gnomatic]

Originally Posted by AZJD

A $100k/yr job with California taxes, contributing to your 401k, providing health insurance for your family, etc leaves you with a lot less. You're looking at closer to $2,200/month on housing. Which gets you a nasty home in a bad area in Concord, Pittsburg, or Antioch. And your neighbors are likely $30k/year earners who have lived there for decades. It's just the truth.

With statements like that, I can see why you prefer life in Arizona, and had a hard time adjusting to life in the bay area.

I have no problem living in a neighborhood with 30K/year earners. I have a great deal of respect for them, because my parents are those people, as am I (my salary doesn't change that). I was raised in such a neighborhood.

It's really sad when people think things like having pools, boats, big houses is the only way to raise a family, and think that anything less is not a "good life".

I have a lot of friends who have families living in the bay area. None are financially struggling. They are just making normal tech salaries (often single income), and no they didn't hit the "real estate" or IPO jackpot, or have family help/inheritance.

Having said that, I also know people who are "struggling" financially on 6 digit incomes here, but from my observation, it's because they tend to have little/no ability to differentiate between needs and wants when it comes to their spending. They can make triple, even 10X their currently salary, move to lower cost location and they would still have that problem.

[boulder2015]

Originally Posted by gnomatic

. None are financially struggling. They are just making normal tech salaries (often single income), and no they didn't hit the "real estate" or IPO jackpot, or have family help/inheritance.
.

When did they buy? You dont mention that.

[AZJD]

Originally Posted by gnomatic

With statements like that, I can see why you prefer life in Arizona, and had a hard time adjusting to life in the bay area.

I have no problem living in a neighborhood with 30K/year earners. I have a great deal of respect for them, because my parents are those people, as am I (my salary doesn't change that). I was raised in such a neighborhood.

It's really sad when people think things like having pools, boats, big houses is the only way to raise a family, and think that anything less is not a "good life".

I have a lot of friends who have families living in the bay area. None are financially struggling. They are just making normal tech salaries (often single income), and no they didn't hit the "real estate" or IPO jackpot, or have family help/inheritance.

Having said that, I also know people who are "struggling" financially on 6 digit incomes here, but from my observation, it's because they tend to have little/no ability to differentiate between needs and wants when it comes to their spending. They can make triple, even 10X their currently salary, move to lower cost location and they would still have that problem.

My intent was to say it's a little silly that making $100,000 a year, and if you support your 401k contributions and insurance for your family, literally leaves you with the only affordable single family housing option in questionable areas in places like Concord, Antioch or Pittsburg.

These areas are notorious for bad schools and higher crime rates.

People who bought in CA decades ago got in at the right time. It is not sustainable for a middle class family moving there now.

Sorry if I offended, but it's not the life I want for my family.

[boulder2015]

Originally Posted by AZJD

My intent was to say it's a little silly that making $100,000 a year, and if you support your 401k contributions and insurance for your family, literally leaves you with the only affordable single family housing option in questionable areas in places like Concord, Antioch or Pittsburg.

These areas are notorious for bad schools and higher crime rates.

Sorry if I offended, but it's not the life I want for my family.

You are smart and made the right decision.

[ssmaster]

There appear to be posters who feel as if good schools,retirement savings ,college savings for children and a stable safe home for their children are frivolous luxuries. If people move out of the area to supply these things for there families they are told about the world class entertainment and dining they will miss out on.

If I take my wife out to the opera and dinner at jardiniere it will run around $800
So my question is how often is a San Francisco family of four going to do that on $100k salary and supply the schools,retirement etc?
More than a Sacramento couple who come done for a weekend of it ?
I don't think so.