Please, no more low income housing in Marin! (San Francisco, Santa Clara: 2015, loan)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Sure mutt, sure. You've been floating on your boat way to long.

No such thing as “too long” on a boat

And you still haven’t addressed the truth of my comments.

Because I’m right. You just don’t like it.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Your bootstrapper theory is great except that in Marin County 117k a year is considered low income https://www.marinij.com/2018/06/24/i...g-agency-says/

What would you suggest that someone earning $117,000 a year do to 'deserve' to live in the County where they work?

Once again you have a hard time separating the right to live anywhere versus the ability to live anywhere.
What don't you get?
You're attitude in giving people everything even if they don't deserve it imho is part of the problem. Hey, why encourage them to be better when you can just give things to them that others worked hard to get on their own.

$117,000 is low income in Marin County. That basically says there's a lot of hard working people that do make money and can afford to be above the median. Why should a $10/hour person be given a place to live in a nice area that they work in simply because they work hard. So do a lot of others. Why not live outside of Marin County in a cheaper area? Hmmm, evidently a lot already do .
Thousands of people live where they do not work. It's always been that way. My father worked in San Francisco and commuted from Hayward. It was a long commute but we could afford to live in Hayward. Should we have been given a place to live in one of the most expensive cities?

Before you go on with your repeated statement of those people that wipe your butt and other menial jobs deserve to live there, evidently there's no shortage of them in Marin county that don't live there. If it is so unfair, they could choose not to work there. You could say if all those people didn't exist there the locals would be sorry. Guess what, many don't live there yet the locals aren't suffering from a lack of workers.
People make their own decisions about what works for them.

Your last post said there were no beach houses in Marin which tells me you simply don't know what you are talking about.
You also said Marin pushed off all low income housing to Vallejo and this has to stop. You act as if Marin has manged to deny all low income housing and this has to stop. Low income housing exists in Marin already so what exactly has to stop.

Exactly what are you trying to say?

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

No such thing as “too long” on a boat

And you still haven’t addressed the truth of my comments.

Because I’m right. You just don’t like it.

No like many others I don't want to get into a long twisted argument with you because you thrive on it, always cite your sources to be more relevant than anyone else's sources. You are as right as you are wrong.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Hilariously circular, dodge.

First off, disclaimer: I, personally, the Mutt, am not a good metric ... because I live, and always have, completey outside the mainstream marketplace.

That said: not boasting (and read further to understand why), but I am loaded financially relative to most people. Interesting points about that fact relative to this discussion:

1. I worked long hard hours days weeks many years - all my life.

2. Working hard, I never made more than enough money to pay my minimalist bills

3. My bankroll came by a lucky investment gamble on a tip from a customer of mine back in the 70’s just as the oil embargo was about to hit. My gamble was based on nothing but a roll of my dice. Required no education, knowledge, experience, training, expertise. Lucky as a winning Lotto ticket.

So, yes, I can afford Marin and can “bank $50k a year after tax” easy.

No, I have no illusion about landlords “keeping every cent”. I live on a boat (I built) but I have built, myself by my own hands, several houses for family that I also repair and maintain. I know all about housing maintenance and costs ....which is part of the reason I don’t personally want one.

Now then, I didn’t ask you about why you choose to live elsewhere. I responded to your claim that, in spite of owning 25 rental houses, you can’t afford Marin. IF you wanted to, you obviously can afford it ... cash out properties to convert ... etc. Not interested in your personal lifestyle decisions on why Georgia and not Marin. That’s entirely your personal subjective choice and I have no beef with people’s subjective choices. Get it?

And no, I never said anything about McDonald’s workers deserving to be given a home in Marin. You are defensively fictionalizing what I said. I responded strictly to your summary oversimplification that education and hard work are required markers for successand wealth accumulation. No, they’re not.

As I wrote: there are lots of smart uneducated people. And lots of stupid educated ones. There are lots of hard working poor people. And lots of lazy wealthy.

I just admitted to you that my wealth is pure luck. Lots of folks get lucky - some by birth, some by gambling, some by being in the right place at the right time, some by connections ... some work as well ... some are lazy as sloths.

Plenty of smart, hard working folks, on the other hand, aren’t motivated by money. Some are, but run afoul of bad luck.

Material wealth can come from hard work. Education can be valuable. But these things are not magic keys.

What you wrote was wrong.

Wow, you think you have everything so well thought out and covered, but you don't.
I live off my rental income. If I were to cash out and buy a house in Marin I would not have any income to live on. You probably didn't think that far ahead, did you? So that means I have a house paid for but no income to live on.

[aslowdodge]

oh and 2sleepy, this might be of interest to you. I never thought I'd ever agree with this guy, but it might address housing for you

//www.city-data.com/forum/calif...000-yr-10.html

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

No like many others I don't want to get into a long twisted argument with you because you thrive on it, always cite your sources to be more relevant than anyone else's sources. You are as right as you are wrong.

Yet again, you avoid answering my points ... but take the time to snark.

Will you answer:

1. Are there wealthy people who didn’t work hard for their money?

2. Are there hard working, intelligent (educated or otherwise) who try like crazy and yet fail to achieve success?

3. Are there people with college degrees and even advanced degrees who are dumb as rocks?

4. Are there smart people who have little education?

Etc.

Bonus round:
Do wealthy people sometimes commit crimes?

Double bonus round:
Could you afford to live in Marin?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Wow, you think you have everything so well thought out and covered, but you don't.
I live off my rental income. If I were to cash out and buy a house in Marin I would not have any income to live on. You probably didn't think that far ahead, did you? So that means I have a house paid for but no income to live on.

Why would you have to cash out of 25 houses to buy 1 in Marin?

I live very comfortably on less than $50k a year. I have more but that’s a typical budget year for me. Excludes housing, of course. I have a close friend (who also lives on a boat - in Florida) who has 7 rental properties: 2 small houses, 1 condo, and 4 shabby old trailer homes on lots ... all but one are in fairly low income blue collar neighborhoods. He lives on about the same as me. His 7 properties are worth maybe $1.5 million all together.

Are you telling us that your 25 houses can’t buy 1 Marin property with at least 10 houses left over for income stream?

And, if you are such a smart real estate investor, why couldn’t you work in that industry as a property manager, salesperson, investment counselor, or other such?

The question wasn’t whether you prefer just living off rental income alone and not working. The question was whether you could afford to live in Marin given you own 25 rental properties.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

oh and 2sleepy, this might be of interest to you. I never thought I'd ever agree with this guy, but it might address housing for you
//www.city-data.com/forum/calif...000-yr-10.html

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. The issue is that places like Marin and Santa Clara Counties as well as San Francisco have to find a way to provide services for their wealthy residents and the only real answer is to set enough affordable housing so that the people who keep the cities running can afford to live there.

San Francisco has a teacher crisis, they can't hire enough teachers because teachers don't want to spend hours commuting to SF or live in the City in a shared bedroom just to make 4 or 5k more annually than they would in a place like Vacaville where they can easily find an affordable place to live. In the high cost areas very few public safety employees live where they work, instead they commute long distances every day. That works out great until there is a major catastrophe like an earthquake, major fire or flood and 2/3 of the public safety employees can't even get to work....what then?

As much as you try to make this about some silly notion that I am claiming that the poor have a right to live in million dollar homes what it's really about is finding a way to keep these cities running. They need nurses, trash collectors, cops, teachers, sous chefs and accountants and if they are all priced out of the area then those wonderful rich people who you seem to be so concerned about will eventually find that they are the ones who need to commute in order to accomplish basic tasks like grocery shopping.

I don't give a hoot if you want to keep changing the subject, the issue is the same that it has always been. It's absolutely idiotic for a county like Marin to restrict every effort at building affordable housing when doing so keeps out the very people that they depend on every single day.

[likealady]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

I remember one person here on CD said it wasn't fair that the better areas had some low crime rates and that they should be forced to have low income housing so the crime could be spread around more. That was only fair.

What the what?!

[CorporateCowboy]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

$117,000 is low income in Marin County.

This should be clarified - $117,000 is low income in Marin for a family of four.