Please, no more low income housing in Marin! (Richmond, Highland: lenders, new house)

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Troy Troy

I'm sure others have probably already responded, but I have no words for Santa Ana! It is filled with Hispanic gangs!

Now don't get me wrong, Southern California ghettos take some discernment to even recognize. When I say an area is now bad, I don't necessarily mean there is complete blight, with burnt-out buildings and cars, and rats roaming freely down the sidewalk. However, for Southern California standards, and in comparison to how the areas used to look, a lot of once nice areas, I'm guessing Santa Ana included, though I don't ever really recall Santa Ana being especially nice, are now bad and low income housing is a big reason for that!

I for one don't want all the nice areas of California, Marin County included, to be trashed because some underachievers don't feel the need to get a viable job, or take their a$$ to college and earn the privilege to live there! You don't have a right to stare at the ocean from your bedroom window anymore then you have a right to drive a Rolls-Royce! These are privileges you have to earn. Perhaps in a perfect world that wouldn't be the case, but in the world we live in that's how it is. Hell, in a perfect world we wouldn't have to have this conversation because everyone would take care of their living space and neighborhood, regardless of how they were raised, or how much money they had. However, we all know this isn't the case. I don't want to risk the last few areas a beauty on some social experiment, that we've all seen fail all over America! In general broke a$$ people don't take care of sh*t! Go live someplace where people don't care if you F it up! There, I said it, and I'm not apologizing even if they won't let me host the Oscars!

I always think, maybe the SF/Oakland forum has changed. Then I come back to find, nope, still a dumpster fire.

[sonarrat]

If the Marinites want to continue to price everyone else who hasn't "got theirs" out of the community, to aggressively block not only affordable housing but any development whatsoever, to turn their noses up at the people who are trying to serve them - I hope that one day, they will be the ones forced to cross the bridge to Richmond to buy their groceries, clothing, to get their hair done, or what have you, because they have finally succeeded in pushing everyone away for good.

[katharsis]

Originally Posted by Troy Troy

Once nice areas of the San Fernando Valley look like trash heaps now, compared to how they looked in the eighties! Save it! I was there!

You are absolutely right. My parents moved to a nice (although fairly modest) middle class neighborhood in 1972, and the difference between then and now is almost not to be believed! Yes, of course, we are talking almost 50 years later, but the Valley has not held up nearly as well as other places I've lived in and then revisited, and imo, the cause is due to an increased population and many more immigrants. From the link below, written in 2002 -- (my italics):

"Few places in America over the past quarter century have undergone as profound a
change in its ethnic character than the San Fernando Valley. Back in the 1970s, the region was
perceived - and rightly so - as a bastion of predominately Anglo, middle class residents living
adjacent the most cosmopolitan society of Los Angeles.

"Today that reality has drastically changed. Since the 1970s, the Valley has itself become
increasingly multi-racial largely as the result of migration of immigrants from such diverse places
as Mexico, El Salvador, Iran, Israel, Armenia, Vietnam, Korea, India and China. By 1990, this
pattern was already well-formed; a decade later, the evidence is incontrovertible.
One-third of he Valley’s 1.7 million residents are foreign born; only half are Anglo, and many
themselves recent immigrants."

https://publicpolicy.pepperdine.edu/...nging-face.pdf

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

I always think, maybe the SF/Oakland forum has changed. Then I come back to find, nope, still a dumpster fire.

I'm glad you said that, I didn't want to start another war here.

[Troy Troy]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

No. What we should be doing is what China does: the Chinese government makes the poor and rich live together in the same neighborhoods. That's why, when you're walking around Shanghai, all the neighborhoods look the same. There aren't any poor neighborhoods, there aren't any rich neighborhoods. Everyone lives together.
Does it work? Yeah, it works very well. Streets are clean, there is no crime.
It pays to travel and see how other people do things, get out of your narrow-minded world.

You already know our country isn't set up like China, so quit the bull crap. They have much stricter laws on crime and even just behavior in general, so they can force situations to work that we would find nearly impossible to maintain.

[Troy Troy]

Originally Posted by tstieber

That's socialism. You pretty much have to build that from the ground up. American cities are already a sea of neighborhoods defined by socioeconomic levels. Pretty impossible to undo it. It's capitalism. We just have to find ways of helping those in need within our structure.

I can say that I live in one of those affluent neighborhoods with average home values in excess of $1.5 mil, and we have Section 8 apartments in the middle of the community. (This is in San Diego) They look like market rate apartments and blend in visually very well. They are clean and well maintained. Still... many of the apartments, as well as their pool area, have ocean views, for $600 a month. We pay a lot for our homes and don't even get those views. Why does subsidized housing need ocean views? That's like a deterrent to people moving up and out. Also, this neighborhood requires long drives to those residents' jobs -- not by any means practical. And none of the Section 8 residents have any opportunity to interact with the homeowners. So what goals are being achieved by putting the housing here? . It's utopian idealism over pragmatism.

Now most residents in the subsidized housing are quiet and clean, but... there are social problems. There are enough bad apples who constantly run stop signs, blast loud music from their apartments, and cause domestic disturbances. Also, car and home break ins are almost always traced to residents there, who then get kicked out and prosecuted. New ones follow. The police says that 80 percent of calls in this area go to that complex, even though it comprises only one fifth of the total housing units in the community. So the crime rate in that complex is twenty times that of the surrounding neighborhood. I realize only a small number of people cause these problems, but they're always going to be living among Section 8 housing. So part of the effect of redistributing real estate to the poor is also redistributing crime to the broader community. Meanwhile, the subsidized residents have no access to public transportation or proximity to jobs. I don't see how this is in any way good city planning. We may all live near each other, but no social goal is actually achieved. It's only good on paper.

What you just described pretty much fits Marin County. For the most part the county is not some hub of industry. It's not a very practical place for people in need of substantial job opportunities.

[Troy Troy]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

I always think, maybe the SF/Oakland forum has changed. Then I come back to find, nope, still a dumpster fire.

I'm curious, what constitutes a dumpster fire, in your opinion?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

No. What we should be doing is what China does: the Chinese government makes the poor and rich live together in the same neighborhoods. That's why, when you're walking around Shanghai, all the neighborhoods look the same. There aren't any poor neighborhoods, there aren't any rich neighborhoods. Everyone lives together.
Does it work? Yeah, it works very well. Streets are clean, there is no crime.
It pays to travel and see how other people do things, get out of your narrow-minded world.

The gov't also sets rental fees, so that everyone can afford to live together. Apparently you're ok with extreme r4ent control?

[80skeys]

Originally Posted by Troy Troy

You already know our country isn't set up like China

The point I'm making is that China illustrates that it's possible for poor and wealthy to live side-by-side without problems.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

The point I'm making is that China illustrates that it's possible for poor and wealthy to live side-by-side without problems.

But I have to agree that China is stricter to a point that crime overall isn’t tolerated like it is here. That in itself I think is why you can mix people together.
Here, shoplifting gets a slap on the wrist. Over there they probably cut off a hand without much of a trial. That’s an exaggeration, but you get the point.