SF/Bay Area Crime Thread (San Francisco: elementary school, vouchers, hot)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Seriously Sleepy? You’re going to cite facts in rebuttal?

The poster you are responding to isn’t on a fact-finding mission, of course.

What "facts"? That was all speculation lol.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The idea that the Whole Foods Store is closing due to shoplifting is what Whole Foods wants you to think, and that might be part of the problem but it's not the whole story. That store has not been popular since it opened, but I don't think any of us would expect them to admit that, do you?

Dorsey got a lot of pushback on his claim that the only problem was shoplifting, check the threads if you doubt me:

Here's an example:
"@_michaelmay_10h
Replying to @mattdorsey
Matt, there’s no way you believe this. The place was almost empty basically anytime you went. The only time it got even moderately busy (and still WAY below other WFs/TJs/Safeways elsewhere) was for a hour after work. It just didn’t have enough business"

And Yelp reviews aren't much kinder. Apparently they have security guards who do absolutely nothing, but somehow those security guards are able to tell a mother and child they can't access the restroom without a store receipt.

I don't doubt that homeless people and shoplifting were part of the problem but this is starting to reek of the same fake hand wringing that Walgreens did when they closed 5 SF stores citing 'shoplifting' as being the reason, then after being outed had to admit that maybe it wasn't shoplifting after all:

"It was a remarkable admission, retail experts said. Walgreens and other retailers have in recent years complained about an increase in shoplifting, inflaming political debates about crime. Mr. Kehoe said that Walgreens’ shrinkage — the industry term for inventory that was bought but cannot be sold, primarily because of shoplifting..." NY Times".

And coincidentally those stores that Walgreens closed had been slated for closing since 2017 due to poor sales.

Maybe they started doing that due to all the homeless and drug use in the restrooms per several Yelp reviews. Heard on the radio they had no shopping carts left either lol.

[Soujouner]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Seriously Sleepy? You’re going to cite facts in rebuttal?

The poster you are responding to isn’t on a fact-finding mission, of course.

You are apparently immune to facts.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

What "facts"? That was all speculation lol.

No, it wasn’t. (Lol) Sleepy’s post referenced past controversies (covered a while back in this very thread too, as I recall) myth-busting various claims by store chains that retail theft was the cause for closing stores. (from 2sleepy’s post: “same fake hand wringing that Walgreens did when they closed 5 SF stores citing 'shoplifting' as being the reason, then after being outed had to admit that maybe it wasn't shoplifting after all”) Walgreens was one specific citation. I can drag out *factual* coverage of these debunked stories if you’d like? But I’m pretty sure you will recall them on your own if you take a moment …

Walgreen’s Backpedals on Theft Concerns
https://www.axios.com/local/san-fran...edals-on-theft
Flashback: In October 2021, Walgreens announced it was closing five San Francisco stores due to "organized retail crime" in the city.

The following month, San Francisco Police Department data showed the five stores set to close had fewer than an average of two reported shoplifting incidents a month since 2018.
Yes, but: Not all crimes are reported to authorities, especially if they are minor.
Why it matters: The Walgreens announcement was a key rallying point for San Franciscans who successfully pushed for the recall of then-District Attorney Chesa Boudin.

The recent statements could also show that Walgreens' closures were more tied to a shifting retail industry and efforts to cut costs, which Bloomberg reported years ago.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Soujouner

You are apparently immune to facts.

Try me. You haven’t cited any yet.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

No, it wasn’t. (Lol) Sleepy’s post referenced past controversies (covered a while back in this very thread too, as I recall) myth-busting various claims by store chains that retail theft was the cause for closing stores. same fake hand wringing that Walgreens did when they closed 5 SF stores citing 'shoplifting' as being the reason, then after being outed had to admit that maybe it wasn't shoplifting after all Walgreens was one specific citation. I can drag out *factual* coverage of these debunked stories if you’d like? But I’m pretty sure you will recall them on your own if you take a moment …

So that doesn't mean it's automatically the case with this Whole Foods. Yes please go ahead and find some "factual" coverage of this specific Whole Foods closing for that reason. Otherwise it's nothing more than speculation based off Twitter and Yelp.

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

By the way, also, using Breitbart and Fox as sources is pretty funny. I’m sure you could find better-rated references.

Toodles.

Looks like the SF Standard is the new Conservative go to also. For awhile it was also some publication called Just the News but haven't seen that one quoted lately. Using Fox and Breitbart, of course, just screams agenda.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Finper

It makes me wonder if not shoplifting why was that store not busy? I’d think San Franciscans would love a Whole Foods. What’s going on around and in a high end grocery store that wealthy residents won’t go there?

My stepson lives in SF and he wasn't at all surprised that it's closing. He said there are homeless people eating from the food bar and shoplifting but not one of the four security guards that he saw did anything about it. You get free parking with a stamped voucher but apparently the machine that verifies the vouchers is unreliable and there was no option except to pay the parking fee, he went back into the store to tell them and they said "that's not our problem tell the people who run the parking garage". On another day he went in to get something for lunch at the hot food bar and an employee whispered to him to avoid the soup that it had been there since the day before. The last time he went there it was raining and the minute he walked in there was an announcement that the store was closing in 15 minutes because of the rain. He said it seemed to him that the biggest problem was that the ship lacked a captain.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

So that doesn't mean it's automatically the case with this Whole Foods. Yes please go ahead and find some "factual" coverage of this specific Whole Foods closing for that reason. Otherwise it's nothing more than speculation based off Twitter and Yelp.

I haven’t claimed it is “automatically the case with this Whole Foods“ … I rebutted your claim that facts aren’t cited in regard to the issue being currently discussed.

The discussion actually began with Soujourner’s unsubstantiated claims that violent crime was rampant in S.F. / Bay and part of the cause of a population exodus. Upon me posting a *factual* rebuttal of Soujourner’s accusation, s/he reframed the accusation to general crime citing just the one Whole Foods closure (as if one retail closure, even if for crime, constitutes a regional trend of retail closings due to theft).

The relevant factual realities are that: organized Retail theft is a HUGE problem nationally and internationally … and very likely some stores, in many locations besides California and it’s Bay Area, do close if theft is a big problem where stores are underperforming for other factors as well. This topic is well addressed in a variety of media and has been referenced pretty thoroughly in the thread, including your comments.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I haven’t claimed it is “automatically the case with this Whole Foods“ … I rebutted your claim that facts aren’t cited in regard to the issue being currently discussed.

The discussion actually began with Soujourner’s unsubstantiated claims that violent crime was rampant in S.F. / Bay and part of the cause of a population exodus. Upon me posting a *factual* rebuttal of Soujourner’s accusation, s/he reframed the accusation to general crime citing just the one Whole Foods closure (as if one retail closure, even if for crime, constitutes a regional trend of retail closings due to theft).

The relevant factual realities are that: organized Retail theft is a HUGE problem nationally and internationally … and very likely some stores, in many locations besides California and it’s Bay Area, do close if theft is a big problem where stores are underperforming for other factors as well. This topic is well addressed in a variety of media and has been referenced pretty thoroughly in the thread, including your comments.

What was being discussed was that specific Whole Foods, not Walgreens. There were not "facts" about that.