Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-30-2014, 03:38 PM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,598,983 times
Reputation: 16235

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmond View Post
Ok we are all possible targets of getting our smartphones hacked, be smart and it won't be a big deal.

If you think that being "computerized" will be like wifi on your PC well then try to hack one yourself, lol, and that is WIFI not like important things...

Hack into some other part of someones augmented body? Just don't buy M$ legs or something no really, stop reading neuromancer (well do read it but please stop thinking that all hacks are similar)

Anyway, what purpose would it be from the hackers side to do this (instead of say injecting a mortal virus/shoot someone/...)? Smart people killing for fun? Well that already exists and I think the world will do its best to fix it, like today except that you can plant a bomb or something but you can't just break through heavy cryptation...

ps. please explain what you mean with "computerized".
I mean, having implanted and programmable electronics perform multiple or vital medical or bodily functions (mental included).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-01-2014, 01:11 AM
 
141 posts, read 128,470 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
I mean, having implanted and programmable electronics perform multiple or vital medical or bodily functions (mental included).
Mmm, sure there is always a risk, I bet somehow it will be way lower than say being hit by a car or some other more classic accident though.

Also I don't think those inplants will be programmable in the classic sense, you would most probably not have an interface letting you do "anything" you want with it (say you can push glycemic levels up and down but not over or under certain safe levels).

Except if you root it just kidding...

Will also most probably only communicate with near field radio so you must be close to the body to interact (like on the skin) or a more direct way, like a 'jack' for example electrods under the skin and induction makes the connection.

For reading your data it might be easier though as that will have big health benefits especially if you pool every ones data together (barring privacy concerns).

For brain communication, even researchers don't really know today (AFAIK) how to transmit this massive data to and from a hundred billions nerve cells so guess we'll see later.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2014, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,262 posts, read 24,470,623 times
Reputation: 4395
Exclamation Scientists have created next generation data storage devices that mimic the memory of the human brain

More good news on the computer front!


Scientists from RMIT University in Australia have built a new nano-device that will act as the platform for next-generation nanoscale memory devices that are highly stable and reliable.

These stacked structures were created using something called thin film, which is a functional oxide material more than 10,000 times thinner than a human hair.

The link: Scientists have created next generation data storage devices that mimic the memory of the human brain
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2014, 12:25 AM
 
18 posts, read 21,694 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmond View Post
Hi thebeteam!

There seems to be several definitions of the singularity but usually they share the idea that beyond the singularity, you just can't predict what will happen so runaway AI is usually there.

The key to predict what will happen up to the singularity, I (among others, I didn't invent it!) think you must understand exponential growth. I don't know your background but as the brain isn't really wired to understand exponentials it might be a bit complicated if you are not used to it.

For example:

What do we need to simulate a human brain (this would be a big step towards AI right)?

Comparing the raw processor power, number of neurons and interconnections and so, experts think we need Exascale computers (we also need simulation software, but the European Brain project will have mapped the human brain by 2020-2021 IIRC).

So what does we have today? We have a 1Petaflop super computer, that is a thousand times less than needed (1 exaflop = 1000 petaflop).

So we are right on time (barring some disaster of course)!

We are on time because computer calculation power (per dollar) doubles every year, it is exponential!
But doubling a 1petaflop computer only gives you 2 peta?
Yep, but then it will be 4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512 and finally >1000 peta which equals an exaflop.

So ten doublings give a thousandfold increase. How much will 20 doublins give? Usually the gut feeling says something like 2000 or 10.000 but it is a million times.



You might ask yourself if it is going to happen though, I mean maybe there is some technological snag that prevents those doublings?
Who knows?
But I know that it started long before the transistor was invented, there is historical proof that it have doubled (at an increasing rate too) since before 1900.

If this doesn't stop, projections says we'll have a 1000$ computer with the same power as a human brain by 2023-2025 (depends how you calculate the brains 'power').

That day it won't be a smart AI but the road to it is wide open.

One thing that blows my mind is that ten years later, a computer 1000$ computer will have 1000 times the computing power of a human brain.

I hope that is inside my lifetime.
Thanks for the explanation! While I agree that the raw processing power of computers will eventually be able to match the processing power of the human brain (likely within our lifetimes), I still have my doubts that we would be able to develop the software necessary to go along with hardware. Neurons are more than just a simple transistor, they can release multiple kinds of neurotransmitters and affect different parts of the brain, and the brains we have now (literally) took years and years to develop (from baby to adult). Simulating the human brain would take a very thorough knowledge of the human brain, which even after a full brain scan is complete, would take much time afterwards to fully understand.

The way I see it, the day we can fully simulate human brains is the day we will fully understand every mental disease and be able to treat it. Given the huge gaps in our scientific knowledge of how the brain functions as a whole (both on a macroscopic and microscopic scale), it would take much more than raw computing power to be able to recreate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2014, 08:24 AM
 
141 posts, read 128,470 times
Reputation: 35
There will most probably be Exascale computers just a couple of years from now ( http://www.iflesk.com/wp-content/upl..._chart_v41.jpg ), matching a brains power ( When will computer hardware match the human brain? by Hans Moravec ) Number varies a bit but it seems that 2019-2020 is when a (super) computer will match a brain (in raw power).

So well if we have the hardware, what about the software?

The Human Brain Project projects to map and simulate the whole human brain by 2024.
Some years later, a 1000$ PC will be able to do the same thing

Here I bet AI researchers will be able to hack together very convincing automatic agents and eventually strong AI based off of this (and other future research). Only my opinion of course.
I actually think pattern matching et al will be really big even before the 2020 (robots and software will take most jobs for example).

I do see the impressive help scientifics would have if they could simulate a brain but I fail to see how they could then (without long work anyway) understand any/all mental illness. Would probably be a big big help though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2014, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,262 posts, read 24,470,623 times
Reputation: 4395
Keep in mind that "matching brain power" and simulating the brain are two different things. The largest super computers can already simulate the human brain but they are not used for that and by 2020 a computer that costs 1,000 dollars will be able to simulate the human brain. Matching brain power take more computational power and that will be done by a 1,000 dollar computer in the 2020's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2014, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,262 posts, read 24,470,623 times
Reputation: 4395
With all the projects out there to reverse engineer the brain I think we should have it done by the end of this decade. This is the latest example:

Next 'Moon Shot': U.S. Scientists Target Human Brain for Exploration

The link: Next 'Moon Shot': U.S. Scientists Target Human Brain for Exploration - NBC News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2014, 08:03 PM
 
60 posts, read 44,084 times
Reputation: 13
Default Best thread on City Data!( And i made a crude video)

We need to really let our vices be heard more if you truly want to progress society at a faster, logical pace. I have tons of energy to put into publicity of Singularity and transhumanism, but we need more numbers...more transhumanist to talk everywhere about this logical process. We should all be transhumanist by 2014 and its just sad. Start a revolution and rise up!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIygggkAg5Y
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2014, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,262 posts, read 24,470,623 times
Reputation: 4395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost in the Atheist View Post
We need to really let our vices be heard more if you truly want to progress society at a faster, logical pace. I have tons of energy to put into publicity of Singularity and transhumanism, but we need more numbers...more transhumanist to talk everywhere about this logical process. We should all be transhumanist by 2014 and its just sad. Start a revolution and rise up!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIygggkAg5Y
Thank you for posting here as its always nice to meet fellow transhumanists.

I listened to your video and while I agree with the basic argument, we are heading to a singularity and from from I read it is sometime between 2030 and 2045 and lately I am leaning towards 2035, I think you can be too hard on everyone living today. First this is a complicated topic and currently more people do not understand it then do. My guess is over 99% of the people living today have no clue what is coming and that is ok. In the next 10 years as we enter life 2.0 in 2020 then begin to merge with nanotechnology in the mid 2020's that will change and it will be over 99% who do understand what is coming. Secondly do not be so hard on what people do today to have fun. While I believe in the singularity and understand that life will change fundamentally by 2030 we still need to enjoy life today in the current reality. Why I love football and attend CSU Pueblo games and the Denver Broncos, travel as much as I can, eat out, go to musicals and support the arts, pretty much enjoy life. That includes holidays even though I am agnostic and do not believe in any organized religion. Its like this is still my youth and while I know in a few hundred years this will be nothing more then a memory I want to make it a good memory. Just like historically people have looked back on their youth when they were in the 40's and up.

It sounds like you have a lot to contribute here and I look forward to more discussions with you as I can always learn more about what is coming in the next 20 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2014, 11:26 AM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,598,983 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
More good news on the computer front!


Scientists from RMIT University in Australia have built a new nano-device that will act as the platform for next-generation nanoscale memory devices that are highly stable and reliable.

These stacked structures were created using something called thin film, which is a functional oxide material more than 10,000 times thinner than a human hair.

The link: Scientists have created next generation data storage devices that mimic the memory of the human brain
Well, I would make the argument that if your "memory" doesn't actually need power input to retain its information over long periods of time such as one year, then in some sense, it isn't memory at all but rather a disk.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top