Are you successfully living here with SAD? Or is it just better to move (seriously). (Seattle: low income, income)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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Does anyone know how long it takes to stop feeling the symptoms of SAD once you are in the sun? I thought someone mentioned a week makes them feel better. I've been in sunny weather for 3 1/2 days now pretty much all day due to the cross country driving and I'm honestly feeling about 85-90% better/normal so far.
Also, does it matter with SAD if you move to a place with more sunny days, but some days are cloudy for part of the day, or places where it's sunny most days, all day (i.e. Phoenix, NM)?
I think I'm really sensitive to lack of sun if that matters. I would have to sit by the bright light 2-3 times a day, every day, and it took about 3-4 weeks for the lights to make a difference for me. I will see a lot of definite improvement with a few days of full sun and being outside a lot, but in consecutive grey days will the depression sets back in somewhat quickly.
Well, it doesn't really matter to me about people living in Europe and what their options may or may not be, I focus on the here and now and what I am able to do. I am glad I have worked hard enough in my lifetime to give myself options to move if I want or need to, to find a place more suitable, since other treatments don't seem to be working. Depression is a medical issue and so isn't just a "frame of mind" or something that should just be "sucked up", so I'm glad I have the resources to move somewhere else with more light that can cure the issue.
We'll agree to disagree. Cancer is a medical issue. There is a great deal of argument as to whether or not depression has medical or psychological roots. That is not to trivialize it. It's serious regardless. However, your frame of mind and perspective has a lot to do with how well you can cope with any condition, especially one that lies between your left and right ears. It's why you reassure any casualty you are assisting with first aid, especially one in shock. I'll use a tortured analogy. You are on a long trip and have to use the restroom. What happens when you pull into the rest area and are within feet of the restroom? The urge intensifies. What caused that? Nothing but your thoughts. That was what I was saying. Some people know they have no alternative. They cope with it accordingly. Knowing you can escape is analogous to being within feet of the restroom. It's similar to a short-timer's attitude at work. You might have worked at a place for years without much complaint, but once you put in your 2-week notice lots of things start to bother you. You know you have an alternative. You know you can easily pack up and move. Knowing that and thinking about it is probably working contrary to any coping strategy you try. I don't think I'm writing anything novel or controversial. It's basic human nature. For example, show me someone content at their job and then let me offer them a better job. Watch how fast they go from being content to being unhappy.
We'll agree to disagree. Cancer is a medical issue. There is a great deal of argument as to whether or not depression has medical or psychological roots. That is not to trivialize it. It's serious regardless. However, your frame of mind and perspective has a lot to do with how well you can cope with any condition, especially one that lies between your left and right ears. It's why you reassure any casualty you are assisting with first aid, especially one in shock. I'll use a tortured analogy. You are on a long trip and have to use the restroom. What happens when you pull into the rest area and are within feet of the restroom? The urge intensifies. What caused that? Nothing but your thoughts. That was what I was saying. Some people know they have no alternative. They cope with it accordingly. Knowing you can escape is analogous to being within feet of the restroom. It's similar to a short-timer's attitude at work. You might have worked at a place for years without much complaint, but once you put in your 2-week notice lots of things start to bother you. You know you have an alternative. You know you can easily pack up and move. Knowing that and thinking about it is probably working contrary to any coping strategy you try. I don't think I'm writing anything novel or controversial. It's basic human nature. For example, show me someone content at their job and then let me offer them a better job. Watch how fast they go from being content to being unhappy.
Funny, because depression affects your frame of mind and perspective. If there were no problems with that, then depression wouldn't exist, would it. I'm glad you have it, so you can judge others that do from your own experience.
I'm normally the most positive person most people say they know. I'm typically extremely motivated. SAD takes that away from me. So don't talk about how well I can or cannot cope with any issue - you don't know the first thing about me, what I've been through and what I can or cannot cope with. If I had no other option, would I deal with sitting with bright lights 2-3 times a day, feeling subpar and possibly having to take anti-depressants with odd side effects? Probably, but because I DO have other options and choose to take them, does that make me a worse person? That's laughable.
If I have to go to the restroom, it doesn't matter if I am within feet of it or miles away, I have to go. Why would someone have to go more if they are close to a restroom other than that more time has gone by and more fluids have passed through their system? If I have to go bad enough, I'm going to pull over to the side of the road and go - look at my options and act on them, rather than say woe is me, I have to go but I'm SOL, then wait around until I'm near a restroom and say, "GEE I REALLY HAVE TO GO NOW." Or maybe I should say that since people in some other parts of the world use pit toilets, then I should suck it up and wait for that too, because obviously their situation has a bearing on my life, situation and choices (not).
Why does it matter if I know I have an alternative and decide to take it? Are people better off because they feel miserable and then just choose to stay that way? If someone who is content with their job gets offered a better job and then chooses to leave, is the person that stays at the same job then stupid or has a bad frame of mind? Nope. If I got offered a better job even if I were happy at my current job, I would be happy to have the new offer, not complaining about my old one. In the same way, I have the option to move, and I am happy that I am able to move, rather than complaining about my situation and staying there.
Funny, because depression affects your frame of mind and perspective. If there were no problems with that, then depression wouldn't exist, would it. I'm glad you have it, so you can judge others that do from your own experience.
I'm normally the most positive person most people say they know. I'm typically extremely motivated. SAD takes that away from me. So don't talk about how well I can or cannot cope with any issue - you don't know the first thing about me, what I've been through and what I can or cannot cope with. If I had no other option, would I deal with sitting with bright lights 2-3 times a day, feeling subpar and possibly having to take anti-depressants with odd side effects? Probably, but because I DO have other options and choose to take them, does that make me a worse person? That's laughable.
If I have to go to the restroom, it doesn't matter if I am within feet of it or miles away, I have to go. Why would someone have to go more if they are close to a restroom other than that more time has gone by and more fluids have passed through their system? If I have to go bad enough, I'm going to pull over to the side of the road and go - look at my options and act on them, rather than say woe is me, I have to go but I'm SOL, then wait around until I'm near a restroom and say, "GEE I REALLY HAVE TO GO NOW." Or maybe I should say that since people in some other parts of the world use pit toilets, then I should suck it up and wait for that too, because obviously their situation has a bearing on my life, situation and choices (not).
Why does it matter if I know I have an alternative and decide to take it? Are people better off because they feel miserable and then just choose to stay that way? If someone who is content with their job gets offered a better job and then chooses to leave, is the person that stays at the same job then stupid or has a bad frame of mind? Nope. If I got offered a better job even if I were happy at my current job, I would be happy to have the new offer, not complaining about my old one. In the same way, I have the option to move, and I am happy that I am able to move, rather than complaining about my situation and staying there.
We're talking past each other. You are taking the most negative interpretations of what I am saying and running with it. Hmmm.... I wonder.... At least you won't torture the forum for years as some have done. Should Seattle not fit me, I'll promptly move on and spare everyone. Kudos for doing the same.
BTW, you might be the only human on this planet whose urge "to go" doesn't increase when they get close to the restroom. It was admittedly a tortured analogy, but little did I know you would have no idea what I was talking about lol.
We're talking past each other. You are taking the most negative interpretations of what I am saying and running with it. Hmmm.... I wonder.... At least you won't torture the forum for years as some have done. Should Seattle not fit me, I'll promptly move on and spare everyone. Kudos for doing the same.
BTW, you might be the only human on this planet whose urge "to go" doesn't increase when they get close to the restroom. It was admittedly a tortured analogy, but little did I know you would have no idea what I was talking about lol.
If people sit around and complain about things for years (really years? sheesh), then yeah that's not good, but I think personally anyway I'd go do something else rather than complain on a forum. I just left Cincinnati and was in a situation in which I was not happy, but in a job and family situation that left me without many other options. At the same time I didn't down it all the time on forums, either, guess I was just out living my life doing other things. But maybe whoever is doing that for years is depressed and just doesn't know it. Depression can make people feel stuck, complain and whatnot and some people don't know they are being that way, so I can't judge. I can see now that I had SAD in the Midwest and didn't know it as it wasn't as severe, but it could have probably made me less pleasant to be around as well too.
I think life is what people make of it and I choose not to be in situations that make me unhappy. But we can only live in the now, many times things can't be changed instantaneously. That's why I was using the lights 2-3 times a day, taking supplements that I thought could help, going out when there was sun even if it was not convenient, etc. That's why I posted on this forum - not to complain, but to see if there was anything else I could be doing to change the situation, or what people's experiences with moving due to this were. At the same time, I was going skiing in the mountains, snowshoeing, running (when I could), spending time with my family and trying to make the best of it. As I've said there are a lot of things about Seattle I like. It's sad the depression I get while there takes away the desire to do a lot of those things anymore, though.
And yeah I'm an avid runner so when I have to go, I have to go wherever it is. Last weekend before a race I had to go and didn't feel like waiting in line so I went in the bushes. I've had an entire bus stop in a foreign country so I could go to the side of the road. I've gone in the men's room before when the women's wasn't available. So no, I guess a bathroom analogy won't work with me lol, but in general anyway I don't typically wait around until I get urgent/desperate with a situation to do something about it.
We'll agree to disagree. Cancer is a medical issue. There is a great deal of argument as to whether or not depression has medical or psychological roots. That is not to trivialize
The brain is a very complex organ and one of the most mysterious, mental illness is very misunderstood. It wasn't too long ago it was believed that people with schizophrenia were possessed by the devil. Clinical depression is a well recognized medical issue, but it is hard to distinguish between just normal sadness, and real depression. Mood depends on both psychological and physiological factors. It is no coincidence that some mental disorders are more common in women than men, depression is one of them and it is due in part, to the rate at which women burn serotonin faster and produce it slower than men, so SAD is more prevalent in woman. I bet you are a man (I could be mistaken). If we had a mood scale 0 being the worst and 10 being in extreme pleasure, say someone fails a test that would decrease your mood by 1 or 2 points depending on the importance of the test, a divorce would lower it by 6 or 7, or so, working out would increase it by 2 or 3 points, what happens is that SAD makes your baseline 2 to 4 points lower than normal. If everything else is going well in your life, you are working out, have family around you or a support system, then you can be stable, or can deal with the normal issues in life better. But if you are dealing with SAD then a normal loss can become almost tragic or very hard to deal with and it could trigger a psychotic episode. It is not something that you fix with a good attitude only, it has to do with chemicals in the brain. Of course if you have no other choice you do the best with what you have, and move on, but that doesn't cure it, you just deal with it better. I've heard of people that faint when exposed to high temperatures, and they could do many things to live better in a warm climate but the question is why would one choose to suffer when there are alternatives?
The brain is a very complex organ and one of the most mysterious, mental illness is very misunderstood. It wasn't too long ago it was believed that people with schizophrenia were possessed by the devil. Clinical depression is a well recognized medical issue, but it is hard to distinguish between just normal sadness, and real depression. Mood depends on both psychological and physiological factors. It is no coincidence that some mental disorders are more common in women than men, depression is one of them and it is due in part, to the rate at which women burn serotonin faster and produce it slower than men, so SAD is more prevalent in woman. I bet you are a man (I could be mistaken). If we had a mood scale 0 being the worst and 10 being in extreme pleasure, say someone fails a test that would decrease your mood by 1 or 2 points depending on the importance of the test, a divorce would lower it by 6 or 7, or so, working out would increase it by 2 or 3 points, what happens is that SAD makes your baseline 2 to 4 points lower than normal. If everything else is going well in your life, you are working out, have family around you or a support system, then you can be stable, or can deal with the normal issues in life better. But if you are dealing with SAD then a normal loss can become almost tragic or very hard to deal with and it could trigger a psychotic episode. It is not something that you fix with a good attitude only, it has to do with chemicals in the brain. Of course if you have no other choice you do the best with what you have, and move on, but that doesn't cure it, you just deal with it better. I've heard of people that faint when exposed to high temperatures, and they could do many things to live better in a warm climate but the question is why would one choose to suffer when there are alternatives?
1. That was really my original point. Your brain does deal with adversity better when it knows it has to.
2. I'm not suggesting anyone should put up with it if they don't have to. My original point, lost in forum world, was that Europeans probably suck it up and deal with it because they really don't have much of a choice...which relates to item 1 above. Americans do have a choice, or at least an easier choice. But no, if anyone is at a point where they are struggling to cope with a place and they have the ability to move, then by all means move. If Seattle isn't what I am expecting, or if anyone in my family has difficulties adjusting, I'm moving.
Yes, the brain is a mysterious beast. I'll choose to disagree with you partially on the good attitude part though. I believe your thoughts, frame of mind, perspective, etc., have a great deal of influence on both your mind and body. There are countless examples of this. Why do some elderly people die shortly after their long-time spouse dies? Just a coincidence? Why do some people's health go downhill rapidly once they retire? Why do you provide assurance to anyone you are treating for an injury? Why does the will to live have any influence on survival? So while I suppose we can deduce the brain to just a bunch of chemical reactions, we do not know if these chemicals influence our thoughts, or vice versa. A lot of brilliant people are arguing over this. All that said, there are clearly limits on what positive thought alone can do. I'm not suggesting it is a miracle cure for all that ails you. That is hardly the case.
As for myself, I kinda like the thought of the brain remaining mysterious. No doubt in the future we will learn that love is just a medical condition caused by a chemical imbalance of the brain triggered by specific curves perceived by your eyes. Yuk.
good attitude didnt help me at all, i jus woke up with headaches and tired for no reason cuz of lack of light, it wasnt depression neccesarily, but real physical effects that some people fail to understand can happen with SAD
so its not only a mental issue that one can jus man up and get over it
good attitude didnt help me at all, i jus woke up with headaches and tired for no reason cuz of lack of light, it wasnt depression neccesarily, but real physical effects that some people fail to understand can happen with SAD
so its not only a mental issue that one can jus man up and get over it
Just for the record, I'm not saying it is that easy, at least not for everyone. I'm 100% certain that some people are able to successfully cope with SAD without turning to lights or medications. I'm not saying everyone everyone can though.
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