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I love this thread. It's fun to think about these kinds of projects precisely because they'll never happen. The days for foresighted development are long gone. For example, the New York City subway ran all the way out to farmland in Bronx in the early 20th century. It's almost hilarious to think about how something like that would go over today. Foresighted development is no match for today's NIMBYs.
Building some bridge or tunnel across the Sound would solve a number of issues. Most of them are obvious, but I also wanted to point out that unleashing development potential on the west side of the Sound would likely apply downward pressure on housing prices in the region. You wouldn't see existing homes decrease in value, but more available land within an easy commute to Seattle would keep prices for new homes down. NIMBYs with anti-development agendas are ultimately the ones responsible for the unaffordable housing prices, as we've seen with other under-bounded cities like Boston and San Francisco.
So we can have rural and undeveloped islands right next door to Seattle, but it's going to come at a high price.
I love this thread. It's fun to think about these kinds of projects precisely because they'll never happen. The days for foresighted development are long gone. For example, the New York City subway ran all the way out to farmland in Bronx in the early 20th century. It's almost hilarious to think about how something like that would go over today. Foresighted development is no match for today's NIMBYs.
Building some bridge or tunnel across the Sound would solve a number of issues. Most of them are obvious, but I also wanted to point out that unleashing development potential on the west side of the Sound would likely apply downward pressure on housing prices in the region. You wouldn't see existing homes decrease in value, but more available land within an easy commute to Seattle would keep prices for new homes down. NIMBYs with anti-development agendas are ultimately the ones responsible for the unaffordable housing prices, as we've seen with other under-bounded cities like Boston and San Francisco.
So we can have rural and undeveloped islands right next door to Seattle, but it's going to come at a high price.
You got it! Exactly my reason for this thread. There is many benefits but yes there is only a small possibility this will ever happen, and it's sad. It seems like days of american innovation and problem solving is quickly going. Everyone thinks for right now, which is gonna screw MY future, and leaves the problems on us. I wish developers and city leaders could learn to solve problems, before it actually is a problem!
It's called preparing you the future. That thing this area never does? Invest in the future to hope it there is benefits for the future.
How can you invest in anything when all your money is being thrown into a 'tunnel to nowhere?'
Quote:
I don't know how old you are but if you are older then I could imagine you were the one saying light rail was a waste of money 20 years ago, how does that look now?
It looks bad today. A massive misuse of funds. It costs so much money but serves so few people. The cost per passenger is outrageous.
Fixed rail transit is a relic of the past, like buggy whips and whale oil lamps. Sure they enrich the politically connected and make people who draw lines on maps for fun feel nice, but they are a massive misuse
of public funds.
We need to plan for our flying car future.... Or at least the self driving car future.
Here are some ideas to invest in:
- extending 509 to I-5
- extending 167 freeway to Port of Tacoma
- finish expanding I-5 to 6 lanes border to border
- finish bringing US-395 to interstate standards between Ritzville and Kennewick
- Fix I-5 in downtown Seattle
- complete the Spokane & Yelm bypasses
- replacing relic bridges
- I-5 Columbia River crossing
- third Clark County Columbia River crossing
- foothills by-pass tollway around the metro area
There are tons of things we need to get done, or should consider getting done.
I consider NOT developing Vashon Island an investment in our future. I'm in New York City right now, and it is NOT where I would want to live. Not a speck of green, people packed shoulder to shoulder, and it's beyond dirty and run down. Big and busy is not necessarily better.
People move to places like Vashon (or the Peninsula, or the San Juan Islands) specifically because they don't want to live in the city. And I value those options for people, and the type of community or society it creates. Vashon is where I went to summer camp. Olympic National Park's beauty exists in part due to how remote and untainted it is. And you think farmers want/can live around urban development?
Are you the same guy who started posting about trains and bridges across Puget Sound about a year ago? There was someone else who posted a bunch of threads like this. Are you even from Seattle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
How can you invest in anything when all your money is being thrown into a 'tunnel to nowhere?'
It looks bad today. A massive misuse of funds. It costs so much money but serves so few people. The cost per passenger is outrageous.
Fixed rail transit is a relic of the past, like buggy whips and whale oil lamps. Sure they enrich the politically connected and make people who draw lines on maps for fun feel nice, but they are a massive misuse
of public funds.
We need to plan for our flying car future.... Or at least the self driving car future.
Here are some ideas to invest in:
- extending 509 to I-5
- extending 167 freeway to Port of Tacoma
- finish expanding I-5 to 6 lanes border to border
- finish bringing US-395 to interstate standards between Ritzville and Kennewick
- Fix I-5 in downtown Seattle
- complete the Spokane & Yelm bypasses
- replacing relic bridges
- I-5 Columbia River crossing
- third Clark County Columbia River crossing
- foothills by-pass tollway around the metro area
There are tons of things we need to get done, or should consider getting done.
Yes please! We have plenty of land available within 20 miles of Seattle, but 405 and I-5 are so horrid for commuting that people just don't consider moving that far away from their place of work. Work on what we have - then you might get the density you're looking for.
I consider NOT developing Vashon Island an investment in our future. I'm in New York City right now, and it is NOT where I would want to live. Not a speck of green, people packed shoulder to shoulder, and it's beyond dirty and run down. Big and busy is not necessarily better.
People move to places like Vashon (or the Peninsula, or the San Juan Islands) specifically because they don't want to live in the city. And I value those options for people, and the type of community or society it creates. Vashon is where I went to summer camp. Olympic National Park's beauty exists in part due to how remote and untainted it is. And you think farmers want/can live around urban development?
Are you the same guy who started posting about trains and bridges across Puget Sound about a year ago? There was someone else who posted a bunch of threads like this. Are you even from Seattle?
Yes please! We have plenty of land available within 20 miles of Seattle, but 405 and I-5 are so horrid for commuting that people just don't consider moving that far away from their place of work. Work on what we have - then you might get the density you're looking for.
I haven't even been posting on this forum since earlier this year and yes born and raised in Seattle, well technically just south but in the Seattle area from birth. So know I didn't have a post like that. Also this was never about Vashon Island, Someone else mentioned that but I would be opposed of that aswell. Vashon island would only be used as a connecting tool to the otherside, just like Mercer Island. The goal would be to build for near the mountains, but build up existing cities like Bremerton, Port Orchord, and other cities near the coastline, not to expand all the way into the boonies. The point is to limit the density to areas like downtown Seattle, Bellevue, and other neighborhoods, but stay fairly suburban and low density in the suburbs. Not to get denser as I don't crave to live in a east coast dense city. This is why I am pondering this idea. If it was planned well by the communities, it would by no means effect the Farmers, The good people of Vashon, or the Beauty of the Olympics.
How can you invest in anything when all your money is being thrown into a 'tunnel to nowhere?'
It looks bad today. A massive misuse of funds. It costs so much money but serves so few people. The cost per passenger is outrageous.
Fixed rail transit is a relic of the past, like buggy whips and whale oil lamps. Sure they enrich the politically connected and make people who draw lines on maps for fun feel nice, but they are a massive misuse
of public funds.
We need to plan for our flying car future.... Or at least the self driving car future.
Here are some ideas to invest in:
- extending 509 to I-5
- extending 167 freeway to Port of Tacoma
- finish expanding I-5 to 6 lanes border to border
- finish bringing US-395 to interstate standards between Ritzville and Kennewick
- Fix I-5 in downtown Seattle
- complete the Spokane & Yelm bypasses
- replacing relic bridges
- I-5 Columbia River crossing
- third Clark County Columbia River crossing
- foothills by-pass tollway around the metro area
There are tons of things we need to get done, or should consider getting done.
How is going to Kitsap county nowhere? 250,000 people live there and that number would quickly double is it was accessible to live there. Also yes i'm definitely not arguing that those projects would not be more important at the moment. I just proposing an Idea we definitely can look forward to the future about. It definitely solves alot of problems immediately and for the future.
How is going to Kitsap county nowhere? 250,000 people live there and that number would quickly double is it was accessible to live there. Also yes i'm definitely not arguing that those projects would not be more important at the moment. I just proposing an Idea we definitely can look forward to the future about. It definitely solves alot of problems immediately and for the future.
Kitsap IS accessible - it's basically a suburban area for Tacoma workers, and it's home to the Navy. And it is a very affordable place to live relative to Seattle suburbs. Let it stay that way!
Kitsap IS accessible - it's basically a suburban area for Tacoma workers, and it's home to the Navy. And it is a very affordable place to live relative to Seattle suburbs. Let it stay that way!
Kitsap is not accessible. Bremerton is 45 minutes from downtown, with zero traffic. It's not a suburb of Tacoma at all, I grew up around the south sound area. You think Kitsap growing is a bad thing? That's more money, more businesses in the area, tax dollars, and cities like Bremerton can finally do the community development that they so want to do. The only losers in this situation is the People who like living in the country away from everyone but they don't justify the fact that this region should grow. Their will be a Bridge, Tunnel, or something crossing the sound, so why wait? The ferry system costs more the run and maintain in the long run and would would offset the cost of a bridge, not to mention the taxs dollars that could be mae in the future. 50 years from now there may be 8 or 9 million people living in this area, as many as the bay area, and they need some place to live. This area is getting bigger not smaller and the uproar of a few thousands people of kitsap and vashon isn't enough to justify not building something there. It will happen one day or another so we can wait 50 years until is too late, or do something now and prepare not the future strategically for the area to grow and prosper!
Urban and suburban sprawl needs to end. We need to build up, not out. The world would be hell if all areas were either city or suburb. If you want Peninsula access you have three easy ways of getting it. Ferry over, take the Tacoma Narrows bridge, or drive around the bottom of the sound. There is no need for anything else.
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Exactly my reason for this thread. There is many benefits but yes there is only a small possibility this will ever happen, and it's sad. It seems like days of american innovation and problem solving is quickly going. Everyone thinks for right now, which is gonna screw MY future, and leaves the problems on us. I wish developers and city leaders could learn to solve problems, before it actually is a problem!
