I am so tired of living in an insane asylum; in a social experiment (Seattle: attorney, buying)

[primaltech]

We need LESS of the world-poisoning religions of all the woke and political correctness dominating everything (and the MAGA crap dominating conservatism, too). Bible thumping is the one problem we don't have out here. We don't need more religion. I moved here from the Deep South to escape that problem, and escape the other extreme of things.

We just need rationality... common sense... sanity... moderation. A mass getting back to the basics movement. It's like, we can have discussions about economic policies that are leading to homelessness... but first we have to maintain law and order.

[ragnarkar]

Originally Posted by primaltech

So what are you suggesting, specifically?

I agree with the emotional rant of wishing we could get rid of all the mentally ill people in Seattle, and drugs and homelessness, etc. But, how do we actually do that? Since we can't throw everyone into a volcano.

Um, how do most other developed countries handle this (or prevent homelessness from getting anywhere near this level)?

[jabogitlu]

Originally Posted by southking500

Good plan, since the billions of $$$ Seatttle and King County have spent on freebies for lazy druggies and vagrants has done wonders so far. And you are right they do seem less sad or maybe that is just because they are more stoned on the drugs they bought with the cash they got for selling their food stamp cards in Chinatown and the $417.00 a month no questions asked welfare payment.

My friend, sounds like you need to go live with the religious.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by ragnarkar

Um, how do most other developed countries handle this (or prevent homelessness from getting anywhere near this level)?

Well, I read an article years ago, about how the Netherlands had started a program to encourage members of the public to invite mentally ill people to live with them! I never saw a follow-up report on how well that worked out, though, or if it's still in practice. This would not go over well in the US, needless to say.

On the California forum, someone posted a year or two ago, that their town (which he avoided naming) has done quite well in this regard. He said they fundraise at state and local fairs, and by other means, to raise money for housing for the homeless, and for mental health care services for those who need it. It sounds potentially like a model program. Successes of this kind need to be studied, but the poster was a bit secretive about it. Maybe he (and the local leadership) didn't want a sudden rush to his community of people seeking housing.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by BjorntheCold

https://komonews.com/news/local/peop...users-security

This isn't working, Washington. It just isn't. I know that you feel like we are amazingly more advanced than 1970s society, with their 'evil' mental institutions. But leaving these people a) out in the weather, b) drugged out of their minds, c) assaulting each other (and us), and d) constantly burning down their own encampments just isn't the answer. And no, tiny home communities WILL NOT WORK. If these were the placid, gentle 'disadvantaged' that you painted them to be, sure, that would be a lovely little solution. But they're not, are they? - they're violent, mentally-ill addicts. They can't be civilized; they can't BE fixed in that way. They spend their days screaming at cars and mutilating squirrels; hurling rocks off overpasses and playing with lighters. They aren't 'a project' you can repair.

It's time for us to acknowledge - as so many societies have before us - that there is a certain slice of humanity that is just broken. The human mind is a wonderfully complex instrument, but in its complexity, there is just an enormous amount of room for damage and error. And when that happens, no amount of love, counseling, medication, or prayer is going to fix things. And when you reach that conclusion, it becomes very obvious that said people should not be left wandering the streets ASSAULTING PEOPLE.

I know, citizens of Seattle, that you have been taught to think that such notions are heartless. But did those innocents deserve a hammer to the skull? Just for the crime of taking the light rail home on a Thursday? How high is the price you're willing to pay to carry on feeling righteous?

By the way - as of this writing? The guy is still on the loose.

De-institutionalization was a well-intentioned program. It was supposed to convert inhumane and, for the patient ineffective confinement into treatment in the community. This April 2, 1972 article, which I remembered reading as a freshman in High School, just before I turned 15, The Patients Can Walk Out At Any Time at Bronx State Mental Hospital (link) made the case for de-institutionalization. Unfortunately few were as motivated as Israel Zwerling, and most looked at the process as a way of saving money.

The mental health system has given up on keeping these people under control. While the status quo ante before mass de-institutionalization was inhumane to the patients, it did keep the country safe from the lunatics. Perhaps the balance needs to be tipped more in favor of the public than the lunatics.

We can work at improving the humanity, and where appropriate the therapeutic nature of these centers. But we were safer with these people locked up than out loose.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Well, I read an article years ago, about how the Netherlands had started a program to encourage members of the public to invite mentally ill people to live with them! I never saw a follow-up report on how well that worked out, though, or if it's still in practice. This would not go over well in the US, needless to say.

Do you think there were any volunteers?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

De-institutionalization was a well-intentioned program. It was supposed to convert inhumane and, for the patient ineffective confinement into treatment in the community. This April 2, 1972 article, which I remembered reading as a freshman in High School, just before I turned 15, The Patients Can Walk Out At Any Time at Bronx State Mental Hospital (link) made the case for de-institutionalization. Unfortunately few were as motivated as Israel Zwerling, and most looked at the process as a way of saving money.

The mental health system has given up on keeping these people under control. While the status quo ante before mass de-institutionalization was inhumane to the patients, it did keep the country safe from the lunatics. Perhaps the balance needs to be tipped more in favor of the public than the lunatics.

We can work at improving the humanity, and where appropriate the therapeutic nature of these centers. But we were safer with these people locked up than out loose.

Do you think there were any volunteers?

According to the article, there were. One couple that had taken a patient in was featured, and there were others. There was a photo of a happy family around the dinner table with their "guest".

This 10-page thread has already been through how de-institutionalization for some advocates of it was well-intentioned (though for those like Reagan, it was about saving money), where the pretty theory went wrong, and how things ended up as they are now. The challenge, obviously, is to find a solution that works. It won't be cheap. That's the problem; no one wants to foot the bill.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

This 10-page thread has already been through how de-institutionalization for some advocates of it was well-intentioned (though for those like Reagan, it was about saving money), where the pretty theory went wrong, and how things ended up as they are now. The challenge, obviously, is to find a solution that works. It won't be cheap. That's the problem; no one wants to foot the bill.

In partial defense of de-institutionalization not much real therapy was happening in the institutions. The frigid wilds of upstate New York were not promising places to which many Park Avenue psychiatrists relocated.

[southking500]

Originally Posted by jabogitlu

My friend, sounds like you need to go live with the religious.

I already do here in King County WA. The dominant religion is "woke-ism" with followers who make flat-earthers seem rational in comparison.

[MechAndy]

I just couldn’t imagine a homeless guest in our house.
Just the thought of that makes me cringe.
I don’t even feel comfortable when a stranger is at our place let alone a homie.

We have been burned too many times and are now jaded.
One worker even stole our meds when we allowed them to use our restroom.
Yeah that’s ever gonna happen again.
I now understand why some shops say that their restroom is out of order.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

In partial defense of de-institutionalization not much real therapy was happening in the institutions. The frigid wilds of upstate New York were not promising places to which many Park Avenue psychiatrists relocated.

Well, the prevailing belief among most mental health care professionals was and still is, that therapy doesn't work for the severely mentally ill. That's why professionals and politicians jumped at the chance to address the whole issue by throwing the newly-developed medications at it, and turn the patients loose, declaring the job "DONE".

Things didn't work out that way, though.