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I find it hysterical that this is yet another thread predicting the collapse of the world as we know it. It was started 3/19/09 and said we only have a couple of years.
That was over 4 yrs ago. Funny. Seems like we're all still here and doing just fine.
Can we finally cut the crap guys. Your world might come to a crumbling halt but it will be your own fault. The world is not going to he'll in a hand basket.
Can we stop the BS now......
Let's say your best friend works as a convenience store clerk. But let's say he lives as if he were Donald Trump. His strategy is to open a credit card, spend it to the limit, and then open another credit card to pay the monthly bill on the last one and spend it, as well, to the limit. When that one is full, open a new one to pay the monthly charge on the last two... and of course spend to the max. So on and on and on and on and on and on.
One day, you approach your friend and tell him that his world is going to soon come to a screeching halt. He laughs his ass off at you as he fills out another credit card application. He points to all the possessions around him--his McMansion, his Lexus, his boat, the Harley on the lawn, his white picket fence, etc. He conveniently "overlooks" the mound of certified letter bills, past-due notices, and lawsuit threats on the kitchen table and tells you that he is still here and doing just fine--which of course, is technically true at this particular moment. But for how long? He then tells you to cut the crap and smugly asks if you can stop the BS now.
What would be your response to your friend?
Your friend's name is the United States of America.
I agree with DELL37, the original post here was in 2009 and said that we only had a few years left, some thought he was too optimistic. That's very telling to me that this and all of the other predictions are shrugged off when they don't come true and the goal post is moved further down the line.
There is a perpetual state of "We only have a short time left."
It reminds me of the religious preachers telling us about the rapture and when their predictions fail to come true, they brush themselves off and start over again with a new prediction. The sheep follow along just the same
Alarmism is a form of religion in itself. You have a dogma, you ostracize anyone who dares ask questions and you are intolerant of people who think for themselves and might reach different conclusions.
In this case, anyone who dares question the alarmism here is immediately cast as an ostrich with it's head in the sand.
Also, like any religion, you feel morally superior to the non-believers and believe you are the chosen ones who will be saved when the great "reckoning" comes.
There is a preoccupation with doomsday and TEOFTW in this country. Look at the traction the Mayan Calendar garbage received and the months leading up to the millennium with Y2K.
So, for the record, I don't deny that we are in trouble from reckless, runaway spending, growing world population and many other dangers. I also don't think it is a bad idea to prepare for a sudden catastrophe. However, I look at this forum and other's like it with the endless failed predictions of imminent doom, the conspiracy theories, the paranoia, the elitism, the intolerance for any other point of view and it just seems like a cult to me, like another form of religion.
I just found it illustrative when I clicked on the title of this post and then looked at the date: 2009.
The sad thing is, you could delete this discussion thread, paste the same original post with today's date and in a few years when nothing happens again, no one blink or take pause either. The paranoia and alarmism will march on unfettered and the people who subscribe to it will keep living in a perpetual state of doomsday being juuuust around the corner even though it never comes. I wonder how many failed predictions it takes before you start questioning the entire mindset. But then, like with religion, you've become so invested in it, it becomes part of who you are, that you will have a very hard time letting go.
While I agree that it is a good idea to be reasonably prepared to rely on yourself in a catastrophe, the notion that if there is a complete breakdown of society, that you will be safe with your guns, ammo and boxes of canned food is ludicrous, here is a rather telling quote:
"Here’s why that A-15 and barrel of wheat are going to amount to jack squat. Because if the law of the jungle is really in effect, there are people who can exploit that much more effectively than the average gun savvy home owner. Like the police, who are already armed to the teeth, wearing body armor, and trained to work together. Or the military, whose first action will be to sieze fuel stores and make sure that they control who has the capacity to project force using mobile infantry and who doesn’t. Tell my how that AR-15 works against an enemy who has air superiority. Oh…also both those groups will have the support of the locals because people crave legitimacy and authority MORE, not less, when times are bad. It gives them a sense of order.
If you really want to survive doomsday show up at city council meetings and have a good middle of the road, pro-everybody, pro-community attitude, and volunteer for every police related volunteer function available. Power keeps power. Always. The people in charge, and the people legally allowed to utilize force will have it the best. If your mayor likes you and the cops like you…you will be the first one to get stuff and the last to have stuff taken away. Read history if you don’t believe me. This survivalism stuff is self-congratulatory BS for grownups who want to live in an adolescent fantasy world: “I don’t need you! I DON’T NEED ANYBODY! I’m going to run away with my friends and we’re going to be HAPPY. I’ll show you! I’ll show EVERYBODY!”"
I agree with DELL37, the original post here was in 2009 and said that we only had a few years left, some thought he was too optimistic. That's very telling to me that this and all of the other predictions are shrugged off when they don't come true and the goal post is moved further down the line.
There is a perpetual state of "We only have a short time left."
It reminds me of the religious preachers telling us about the rapture and when their predictions fail to come true, they brush themselves off and start over again with a new prediction. The sheep follow along just the same
Alarmism is a form of religion in itself. You have a dogma, you ostracize anyone who dares ask questions and you are intolerant of people who think for themselves and might reach different conclusions.
In this case, anyone who dares question the alarmism here is immediately cast as an ostrich with it's head in the sand.
Also, like any religion, you feel morally superior to the non-believers and believe you are the chosen ones who will be saved when the great "reckoning" comes.
There is a preoccupation with doomsday and TEOFTW in this country. Look at the traction the Mayan Calendar garbage received and the months leading up to the millennium with Y2K.
So, for the record, I don't deny that we are in trouble from reckless, runaway spending, growing world population and many other dangers. I also don't think it is a bad idea to prepare for a sudden catastrophe. However, I look at this forum and other's like it with the endless failed predictions of imminent doom, the conspiracy theories, the paranoia, the elitism, the intolerance for any other point of view and it just seems like a cult to me, like another form of religion.
I just found it illustrative when I clicked on the title of this post and then looked at the date: 2009.
The sad thing is, you could delete this discussion thread, paste the same original post with today's date and in a few years when nothing happens again, no one blink or take pause either. The paranoia and alarmism will march on unfettered and the people who subscribe to it will keep living in a perpetual state of doomsday being juuuust around the corner even though it never comes. I wonder how many failed predictions it takes before you start questioning the entire mindset. But then, like with religion, you've become so invested in it, it becomes part of who you are, that you will have a very hard time letting go.
While I agree that it is a good idea to be reasonably prepared to rely on yourself in a catastrophe, the notion that if there is a complete breakdown of society, that you will be safe with your guns, ammo and boxes of canned food is ludicrous, here is a rather telling quote:
"Here’s why that A-15 and barrel of wheat are going to amount to jack squat. Because if the law of the jungle is really in effect, there are people who can exploit that much more effectively than the average gun savvy home owner. Like the police, who are already armed to the teeth, wearing body armor, and trained to work together. Or the military, whose first action will be to sieze fuel stores and make sure that they control who has the capacity to project force using mobile infantry and who doesn’t. Tell my how that AR-15 works against an enemy who has air superiority. Oh…also both those groups will have the support of the locals because people crave legitimacy and authority MORE, not less, when times are bad. It gives them a sense of order.
If you really want to survive doomsday show up at city council meetings and have a good middle of the road, pro-everybody, pro-community attitude, and volunteer for every police related volunteer function available. Power keeps power. Always. The people in charge, and the people legally allowed to utilize force will have it the best. If your mayor likes you and the cops like you…you will be the first one to get stuff and the last to have stuff taken away. Read history if you don’t believe me. This survivalism stuff is self-congratulatory BS for grownups who want to live in an adolescent fantasy world: “I don’t need you! I DON’T NEED ANYBODY! I’m going to run away with my friends and we’re going to be HAPPY. I’ll show you! I’ll show EVERYBODY!”"
Willful ignorance is the worst because it tends to breed the most vehement violence and spite when nirvana turns out to not be nirvana and the yellow brick road crumbles. Although very few here believe that Mad Max is around the corner, what is obvious to ANYONE who knows how to read, understands that history is cyclic and quite predictive, knows how to judge from what is happening around him/her, and has even a marginal ability to think critically, is that this nation has been in decline for a long time--since before I was born. Why is that so hard for so many people to comprehend? They continue to deny that two plus two is four. And that's their call. But denying it doesn't make it any less true.
What does that mean for us? Well, for some it may not mean much of anything in the short term. For others, in most certainly might. In the long term, it means a failing economy, a dysfunctional society, a wildly inequitable society, and a general decay. It may mean civil unrest or civil revolt. It may not. But at the least, things (standards of living) will continue to decay. That's what happens when a nation lives high on the hog on borrowed money and then tries to prevent the inevitable.
With the pending collapse of our country about a year or two away, I thought I would begin a survival guide for West Virginian's.
West Virginians are their best at surviving disasters and this one will be just like the others.
The key to survival is planning, help from the societal group and adaptability.
I would like to hear your helpful and constructive thoughts on this issue.
thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceT
The collapse is a lot closer than you think
ROTFLMAO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DELL37
I find it hysterical that this is yet another thread predicting the collapse of the world as we know it. It was started 3/19/09 and said we only have a couple of years.
That was over 4 yrs ago. Funny. Seems like we're all still here and doing just fine.
Can we finally cut the crap guys. Your world might come to a crumbling halt but it will be your own fault. The world is not going to he'll in a hand basket.
Can we stop the BS now......
^^^^ QFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguyslife
I agree with DELL37, the original post here was in 2009 and said that we only had a few years left, some thought he was too optimistic. That's very telling to me that this and all of the other predictions are shrugged off when they don't come true and the goal post is moved further down the line.
There is a perpetual state of "We only have a short time left."
It reminds me of the religious preachers telling us about the rapture and when their predictions fail to come true, they brush themselves off and start over again with a new prediction. The sheep follow along just the same
Alarmism is a form of religion in itself. You have a dogma, you ostracize anyone who dares ask questions and you are intolerant of people who think for themselves and might reach different conclusions.
In this case, anyone who dares question the alarmism here is immediately cast as an ostrich with it's head in the sand.
Also, like any religion, you feel morally superior to the non-believers and believe you are the chosen ones who will be saved when the great "reckoning" comes.
There is a preoccupation with doomsday and TEOFTW in this country. Look at the traction the Mayan Calendar garbage received and the months leading up to the millennium with Y2K.
So, for the record, I don't deny that we are in trouble from reckless, runaway spending, growing world population and many other dangers. I also don't think it is a bad idea to prepare for a sudden catastrophe. However, I look at this forum and other's like it with the endless failed predictions of imminent doom, the conspiracy theories, the paranoia, the elitism, the intolerance for any other point of view and it just seems like a cult to me, like another form of religion.
I just found it illustrative when I clicked on the title of this post and then looked at the date: 2009.
The sad thing is, you could delete this discussion thread, paste the same original post with today's date and in a few years when nothing happens again, no one blink or take pause either. The paranoia and alarmism will march on unfettered and the people who subscribe to it will keep living in a perpetual state of doomsday being juuuust around the corner even though it never comes. I wonder how many failed predictions it takes before you start questioning the entire mindset. But then, like with religion, you've become so invested in it, it becomes part of who you are, that you will have a very hard time letting go.
While I agree that it is a good idea to be reasonably prepared to rely on yourself in a catastrophe, the notion that if there is a complete breakdown of society, that you will be safe with your guns, ammo and boxes of canned food is ludicrous, here is a rather telling quote:
"Here’s why that A-15 and barrel of wheat are going to amount to jack squat. Because if the law of the jungle is really in effect, there are people who can exploit that much more effectively than the average gun savvy home owner. Like the police, who are already armed to the teeth, wearing body armor, and trained to work together. Or the military, whose first action will be to sieze fuel stores and make sure that they control who has the capacity to project force using mobile infantry and who doesn’t. Tell my how that AR-15 works against an enemy who has air superiority. Oh…also both those groups will have the support of the locals because people crave legitimacy and authority MORE, not less, when times are bad. It gives them a sense of order.
If you really want to survive doomsday show up at city council meetings and have a good middle of the road, pro-everybody, pro-community attitude, and volunteer for every police related volunteer function available. Power keeps power. Always. The people in charge, and the people legally allowed to utilize force will have it the best. If your mayor likes you and the cops like you…you will be the first one to get stuff and the last to have stuff taken away. Read history if you don’t believe me. This survivalism stuff is self-congratulatory BS for grownups who want to live in an adolescent fantasy world: “I don’t need you! I DON’T NEED ANYBODY! I’m going to run away with my friends and we’re going to be HAPPY. I’ll show you! I’ll show EVERYBODY!”"
Well said. I will add that there was also doomsday hysteria about 1000 AD in Europe with the approach of the millenium of Christianity. Never mind that the date had absolutely no meaning to the rest of the world, much of which was much more advanced than the Europeans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Willful ignorance is the worst because it tends to breed the most vehement violence and spite when nirvana turns out to not be nirvana and the yellow brick road crumbles. Although very few here believe that Mad Max is around the corner, what is obvious to ANYONE who knows how to read, understands that history is cyclic and quite predictive, knows how to judge from what is happening around him/her, and has even a marginal ability to think critically, is that this nation has been in decline for a long time--since before I was born. Why is that so hard for so many people to comprehend? They continue to deny that two plus two is four. And that's their call. But denying it doesn't make it any less true.
What does that mean for us? Well, for some it may not mean much of anything in the short term. For others, in most certainly might. In the long term, it means a failing economy, a dysfunctional society, a wildly inequitable society, and a general decay. It may mean civil unrest or civil revolt. It may not. But at the least, things (standards of living) will continue to decay. That's what happens when a nation lives high on the hog on borrowed money and then tries to prevent the inevitable.
What an utter crock of myopic, gingoistic bull manure!!!! History is neither cyclic nor "quite predictive". It's f'ing hindsight!!!
The collapse of the Roman Empire in Western Europe was NOT the end of world civilization. Civilization continued and even thrived in Greece, Turkey, and the eastern Mediterranean under the Byzantine Greeks, and then in North Africa and Spain under the Arabs and Moors. Civilization in India and China remained untouched by the collapse of Rome.
FYI, the United States is NOT the center of the universe. In fact, it's NOT even the center of the world.
What an utter crock of myopic, gingoistic bull manure!!!! History is neither cyclic nor "quite predictive". It's f'ing hindsight!!! .
Then you f'ing haven't f'ing studied much f'ing economic f'ing history, f'ing have you? Those who forget the f'ing past f'ing
condemn themselves to f'ing relive it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
The collapse of the Roman Empire in Western Europe was NOT the end of world civilization.
No, but it was the end of THEIR civilization and lifestyle. Duh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
Civilization continued and even thrived in Greece, Turkey, and the eastern Mediterranean under the Byzantine Greeks, and then in North Africa and Spain under the Arabs and Moors. Civilization in India and China remained untouched by the collapse of Rome.
Again, you've missed the point (surprise!). It doesn't really matter what was happening in the rest of the world to the typical person hunkered down in Rome when the Visigoths and others were crashing what was left of the military defenses, now does it? There have been tens of thousands of "crashes" over the course of history that nobody else cared about besides those unfortunate enough to be in them. Ask any person who is/was living at the time and within that crash if it mattered to him/her what was happening on the other side of the world, and I'll bet the answer is/was no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
FYI, the United States is NOT the center of the universe. In fact, it's NOT even the center of the world.
No, it's not in a universal sense. But for those living their day to day lives within it, it most certainly is. Just like those living their daily lives in the Philippines, Uruguay, or Greenland will tend to see those respective places as the center of the universe... mainly because it IS the center of their universe. Just like the center of my universe is my home, wherever that may be at any given time.
So, generally, you folks just keep trying to change the laws of mathematics. Other than me seeing the fault, it's no skin off from my nose. No matter how much you whine and claim that there is no mathematical reality or consequence to the economic road we are going down, you will not change the ultimate outcome. That's what I was talking about when I said history is cyclic. I'm talking in an economic sense, which of course, means a mathematical sense. You can deny the math all you want, and for every denial, I can sit down with you and prove to you why an answer is what it is mathematically and your emotion won't change it. That's why so many libs hate math. There is a right answer and their sharp-tongued rhetoric will not change that. I can prove to you that 1>0 and that -1<0 , no matter how loud you caterwaul that it isn't. We've been living a less than zero economic lifestyle for quite some time. The mathematical consequence of that will play out, just as it always has, historically. It's just a matter of how far the government can kick the can down the road. Meanwhile the trillions and trillions of dollars of debt just keeps on building. Smart. Very smart. Living beyond one's means is always smart.
So, generally, you folks just keep trying to change the laws of mathematics. Other than me seeing the fault, it's no skin off from my nose. No matter how much you whine and claim that there is no mathematical reality or consequence to the economic road we are going down, you will not change the ultimate outcome. That's what I was talking about when I said history is cyclic. I'm talking in an economic sense, which of course, means a mathematical sense. You can deny the math all you want, and for every denial, I can sit down with you and prove to you why an answer is what it is mathematically and your emotion won't change it. That's why so many libs hate math. There is a right answer and their sharp-tongued rhetoric will not change that. I can prove to you that 1>0 and that -1<0 , no matter how loud you caterwaul that it isn't. We've been living a less than zero economic lifestyle for quite some time. The mathematical consequence of that will play out, just as it always has, historically. It's just a matter of how far the government can kick the can down the road. Meanwhile the trillions and trillions of dollars of debt just keeps on building. Smart. Very smart. Living beyond one's means is always smart.
Sorry but when you start speaking in absolutes, then you proclaim your position as the only correct answer possible and you pejoratively dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as ruled by emotion instead of logic you lose all credibility IMHO.
This is really why I have no patience or much hope for any sort of meaningful discussion on the internet.
Yes we are in trouble and yes we are not on a sustainable or sensible path. Does that mean that you or anyone else can predict the future or that our future is set in stone? Hardly.
Economics utilizes mathematics but it is not GOVERNED by mathematics, in my opinion. Ask anyone who's followed the stock market for any length of time and has attempted to use mathematical formulas or logic to their financial benefit.
Last edited by aguyslife; 07-28-2013 at 02:29 PM..
Sorry but when you start speaking in absolutes, then you proclaim your position as the only correct answer possible and you pejoratively dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as ruled by emotion instead of logic you lose all credibility IMHO.
This is really why I have no patience or much hope for any sort of meaningful discussion on the internet.
Yes we are in trouble and yes we are not on a sustainable or sensible path. Does that mean that you or anyone else can predict the future or that our future is set in stone? Hardly.
Economics utilizes mathematics but it is not GOVERNED by mathematics, in my opinion. Ask anyone who's followed the stock market for any length of time and has attempted to use mathematical formulas or logic to their financial benefit.
Once there is so many trillions of dollars that the rest of the world will (understandably) want back at some point, it's not me or my emotions that decide. It's simple common sense. And as I said, mathematics.
Much of our reality, in a physical sense is either governed or predictable mathematically. Mathematics is used to describe our universe. Jump off a bridge and let me know if Newton's predictive math didn't come very close to the outcome (assuming you live through the sudden deceleration at the bottom).
Now of course, considering that our brains (speaking of the human mind in general) are often quite irrational, there is an element of unpredictability. But, when it comes to accounting and the place we are economically at this point, it doesn't take all that much math to see what is going to happen unless there are some very drastic changes made (which likely will not happen). It only takes a bit of reason to see this. If you live your life on credit cards, with dwindling income, for thirty years, what is your best guess as to where your life is headed economically?
Most people are not able to fathom the enormity of what even a single "trillion" really is, let alone ten or twenty or thirty trillion is. If they were, and they are a citizen of this nation, they wouldn't be able to sleep at night... unless they were in denial, of course and follow the "all is well" train of thought. It's not just a little problem. It's a problem that no nation in the history of the world that we know has ever faced. We are on unfamiliar ground. Many nations have imploded in far less dire situations. But... Americans are "special," right? We can bend the laws of physics (so to speak). They don't apply to us.
By the way, if you have no patience for this sort of banter, why are you here? These forums are typically an ego trip or a place to voice opinion. That isn't going to change anytime soon. Personally, when I'm ready for verifiable truth in absolutes... as I said, I open a math book or two. As for forums that only deal in truth (or are supposed to), visit a mathematics forum. I do quite often. The big difference is that there, I can prove every answer and everything I say, or I don't say it. Here, we attempt to predict the future. And that business is much less absolute, although there are strong predictors.
in fact in usa u just get free money....
you steal it...
you will never pay back... u can not..
so someone has to pay for you.!
who is going to pay for you in this case? and how?
Now wait a minute, cheapcharly... I've never stolen anything in my life. I exchange my time for the barter medium that I use to sustain myself with food, shelter, clothing, etc. I expend my labor in exchange for my living, which doesn't require much. I live very simply--more simply than you, I would conjecture. I'm certainly not responsible for 15 trillion dollars worth of gluttony.
You've fallen into the trap that most folks have. You are blaming powerless individuals for the actions of the ruling class tyrants. I didn't ask for this country to become the police department of the world or for it to extend its credit to ridiculous extremes in order to addict a populace to a lifestyle of gluttony and overconsumption. That is not my fault. Stop blaming me.
The sooner we start seeing our fellow beings as individuals rather than as "hives," the better. The sooner we stop manufacturing "The Other" and put blame where it really lies, the better.
I'll just bet you have more worldly possessions than I do. Who should I blame for that? Should I blame you?
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