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It has nothing to do with the way the area is "laid out".
The big problem is Americans are spoiled and attached to their cars. This has to stop. We all know that. Its going to become a cost thing like it did a couple of years ago when we were pumping $4 a gallon gas.
I feel that your thinking is narrow minded in the way you think that there would be no support networks and necessary infrastructure to have a working system. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle.
Learn your American history. Prior to WWII and for a time thereafter
RAIL was the main mode of transportation in the U.S. both for passenger and freiht. Before airliners,before interstate highways, rail ruled the U.S.
The automobile became king later.
I was in the midst of typing a response to this original message but really I think you said it best right here.
The plan has been very well thought out and planned out. TBARTA has been working on this project actively for several years as have several consultants amongst others who have built successful systems for other cities. The only thing that is missing here...is sadly the most important part, the funding.
As for the other comment that was made in this original post about the strip searches or whatever...not sure what point you are trying to make as that has absolutely nothing to do with rail. Nonetheless, remember that it didn't used to be this way where you had to go through such a stringent procedure to get on an airplane, or have your bag searched to walk into Disney World or a sports arena. You can blame people from some other countries for that....we all know the stories. I am not a fan of the inconveniences either, but I understand where they are coming from with them and have come to accept that it is the way it is, period. At the risk of sounding cliche, if you don't like things here, you can always go back to from wherever you came.
Good Luck trying to get Americans out of their cars.
I know the US had a rail system, it still has in some areas, the problem is that when the technology advanced and faster trains were now possible, US remained behind and didn't care much about upgrading the existing system and expand it. This could have been done many years ago.
But the car industry had to advance and so were the wars to keep our gas flowing.
I came from having 6 ways of public transit to none....my mom had her car for 10 years barely got to 10,000 kilometers, my car is 4 years old and has 86000+ miles...and no, "I" don't want to drive non stop nor pay $4 in gas....outrageous...but I am only one person...sure it would be very flattering to have the rail all to myself....but I wouldnt want to impose on taxpayers like other demographics do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian
It HAS and DOES work in FL.
It has nothing to do with the way the area is "laid out".
The big problem is Americans are spoiled and attached to their cars. This has to stop. We all know that. Its going to become a cost thing like it did a couple of years ago when we were pumping $4 a gallon gas.
I feel that your thinking is narrow minded in the way you think that there would be no support networks and necessary infrastructure to have a working system. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle.
Learn your American history. Prior to WWII and for a time thereafter
RAIL was the main mode of transportation in the U.S. both for passenger and freiht. Before airliners,before interstate highways, rail ruled the U.S.
The automobile became king later.
Finaly you hit the nail in the head:
EXACTLY! Florida was not meant to be filled with sub divisions and public transit and eventually made to look like NYC! if that were the case all the NYC transplants would have already done that. But all the US born transplants wanted more space....remember? 300square feet for $5000 in NYC???
In Europe they dont brief us that certain cities dont have public transit. Everyone that lives in EU, Japan etc will have same shock and even citizens of DC, LA, SF, CHI....but sadly I dont think those ppl move here with the expectation of vast public transit. They all want to escape the cold, drive their convertables, bikes and wear flip flops 365 days a year....
Yeah, in theory it would be grest if FL had comprehensive public transit, in practice I think the numbers will dispoint.
To me, YES, it was a shock not to have public transit available,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian
It never ceases to amaze me how some transplants don't understand the State of Florida. It used to be a nice place with small cities and many small towns all living in a wonderful existence until the transplants and told us how backward we are.
In 2005 Florida was the fastest growing state in the nation.
Everybody wanted to be here. Most still are.
I didnt like where I lived so I moved to FL knowing full well what to expect and not expect from it. Now that the growth has happened, its time to provide services to those people in the future. It's not a "happens today" project. Whether or not it was meant to be filled with subdivisions or not, the people came and are here and need to be provided with transportation other than the automobile.
Most people know in advance due to their research and visits as to what Florida has to offer and they made their decisions based on that knowledge. It seems that some of you relocated to FL not even knowing how the weather was much less anything about transportation, housing, demographics and geography.
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia
Finaly you hit the nail in the head:
EXACTLY! Florida was not meant to be filled with sub divisions and public transit and eventually made to look like NYC! if that were the case all the NYC transplants would have already done that. But all the US born transplants wanted more space....remember? 300square feet for $5000 in NYC???
In Europe they dont brief us that certain cities dont have public transit. Everyone that lives in EU, Japan etc will have same shock and even citizens of DC, LA, SF, CHI....but sadly I dont think those ppl move here with the expectation of vast public transit. They all want to escape the cold, drive their convertables, bikes and wear flip flops 365 days a year....
Yeah, in theory it would be grest if FL had comprehensive public transit, in practice I think the numbers will dispoint.
To me, YES, it was a shock not to have public transit available,
Yeah, it seemed that way, but Florida's "growth" was not based on real jobs and larger companies coming here. The "growth" happened in real estate and as you can see it lasted all of two years before it BLEW up in their faces and destroyed the lives of a ton of people in the process bringing the worst recession on file so far. Some "growth".
The construction industry took a dive, people fled the state, architects are jobless....and land has been fitted with sewer lines and street lights and no homes were built....several abandoned throughout the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian
Gee, sorry we have disappointed you.
In 2005 Florida was the fastest growing state in the nation.
Everybody wanted to be here. Most still are.
I didnt like where I lived so I moved to FL knowing full well what to expect and not expect from it. Now that the growth has happened, its time to provide services to those people in the future. It's not a "happens today" project. Whether or not it was meant to be filled with subdivisions or not, the people came and are here and need to be provided with transportation other than the automobile.
Most people know in advance due to their research and visits as to what Florida has to offer and they made their decisions based on that knowledge. It seems that some of you relocated to FL not even knowing how the weather was much less anything about transportation, housing, demographics and geography.
They also voted to continue to allow builders and politicians to allow more uncontrolled "urban sprawl" rather than the taxpayers having some control over the landscape. There is a reason FL has the image it has throughout the country. The voters here just proved that.
FL is not a progressive state.
Man, I'm just stunned that this opportunity has been voted away.
We were planning to come down for Dec. and Jan. to explore for a possible relo but not sure I want to be surrounded by those with such limited thinking.
Experienced the same feelings when living in AZ. but then unlike now sanity did prevail. Short sighted people attempting to stop light rail projects in Tempe and Phoenix were unsuccessful. Light rail exists there today and it is a tremendous success. Ridership numbers have exceeded all expectations and this is in a place that is the defintion of sprawl. People today will leave their cars if provided the opportunity.
What is it about us today that we are unable to look ten even five years down the road and see what may be? Is the concept of investing now for a better future no longer taught?
The fact is Florida has always been an attractive place to many people and that is why we have had the growth over the decades. Those subdivisons out away from the city center were built for people who were in the "suburban" mindset. Not the urban mindset, they were trying to escape that in most cases. In order for R.E. to grow, you have to have people coming. They came. This has not been happening over the past few years as you state, but has been happening for a very long time.
Why do you think that we must turn FL into a large urban center with "larger companies". If you relocate to FL, you should know what employment opportunities exist for you. If you're into something that isn't here, stay home.
Nothing blew up in anybody's faces except for those who just had to buy during a boom in fear that they would miss out on this magical investment called real estate. Lots of people made a lot of money and a lot of people committed themselves to spending a lot of money that they didn't really have thanks to the generous lending practices that led to all these foreclosures and "walk away" properties that investors bought with paper.
A 100k home should never have reached the point of 300k+ as it did and people foolish enough to pay those inflated prices were suckers.
The point is, Tampa is growing and will continue to grow as will the rest of FL. Now is the time to implement transportation alternatives for the future. Looking beyond today is the point and apparently a lot of folks in Hillsborough County feel the 1% tax isn't worth the investment in that future.
Shortsighted to say the least!
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia
GOP lawmaker considers dropping Tampa from rail plan
Yeah, it seemed that way, but Florida's "growth" was not based on real jobs and larger companies coming here. The "growth" happened in real estate and as you can see it lasted all of two years before it BLEW up in their faces and destroyed the lives of a ton of people in the process bringing the worst recession on file so far. Some "growth".
The construction industry took a dive, people fled the state, architects are jobless....and land has been fitted with sewer lines and street lights and no homes were built....several abandoned throughout the state.
Certain the key here is like you stated, "short sighted people:". It seems there are only one or two anti-rail folks here, but then again those are the same people who hate everything else about FL and really should reconsider their futures here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieM
Man, I'm just stunned that this opportunity has been voted away.
We were planning to come down for Dec. and Jan. to explore for a possible relo but not sure I want to be surrounded by those with such limited thinking.
Experienced the same feelings when living in AZ. but then unlike now sanity did prevail. Short sighted people attempting to stop light rail projects in Tempe and Phoenix were unsuccessful. Light rail exists there today and it is a tremendous success. Ridership numbers have exceeded all expectations and this is in a place that is the defintion of sprawl. People today will leave their cars if provided the opportunity.
What is it about us today that we are unable to look ten even five years down the road and see what may be? Is the concept of investing now for a better future no longer taught?
Yeah, it seemed that way, but Florida's "growth" was not based on real jobs and larger companies coming here. The "growth" happened in real estate and as you can see it lasted all of two years before it BLEW up in their faces and destroyed the lives of a ton of people in the process bringing the worst recession on file so far. Some "growth".
The construction industry took a dive, people fled the state, architects are jobless....and land has been fitted with sewer lines and street lights and no homes were built....several abandoned throughout the state.
You do realize that Florida has been growing rapidly since the 50's right? It didn't just happen the last 2 years . You obviously don't know much about Florida other than what has been happening in the last couple of years. You also don't seem to realize that with a public transportation network, all the things you are complaining that Florida doesn't have (large corporations, urban landscape, safer roads, less traffic, better economy, ect) will all be more achievable.
Certain the key here is like you stated, "short sighted people:". It seems there are only one or two anti-rail folks here, but then again those are the same people who hate everything else about FL and really should reconsider their futures here.
I brought this topic up at work today to see what kind of feedback I can get- since it is hard to really determine peoples personalities in a web forum.
The only people who are against the high speed rail are the miserable types. I dont know what that means, but the old grumpy 55+ crowd all shared the same miserable and angry sentiment that it is a dumb idea. All of the young people, or the happier older people are pretty bummed out about the outcome of the 1% sales tax increase to support light rail get shot down.
I really wish tampa was progressive town with a more hip outlook on the future.
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