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What kind of crummy parent would make a comment like that? Unbelievable.
I think you've hit on something about the unions. Whatever benefits the unions have brought teachers, real respect hasn't been one of them. In many schools, teachers can be disrespected and mistreated by students with impunity, and the administration runs the other way. Where's the union on these issues? It seems that belonging to a union, and getting the respect normally accorded to professionals, seems to be mutually exclusive.
With all the publicity now about state budget shortfalls and public employee pensions, the attitude toward teachers could take another hit.
The union can't make people respect teachers. Unfortunately, union membership works to create disrespect. Many people seem to hold the idea that if you were worth anything, you wouldn't need a union to back you. Unfortunately, in teaching you get walked on without a union.
In the non union school I was teaching in, I started the year with over 180 students, I taught in a room that was half the size of what is recommended by the NSTA for a chemistry lab (no separate lab) with 50% more students than the NSTA says is acceptable and I earned, as my permanent wage, less than a first year kindergarten teacher with a bachelors degree in spite of having two masters degrees.
Compare this to my friend who teaches chemistry in a union district. She starts the year with a maximum of 120 students, has a separate lab to conduct labs in that is twice the size the NSTA recommends (to allow for two classes in the lab at one time) and makes as much as I made when I was an engineer (she's been teaching 15 years and also has two masters degrees, one in chemistry and one in education).
Just the change in environment would make teaching so much easier. Over crowded classrooms practically insure you will have that critical mass of resistant students which results in discipline problems being like a game of whack a mole. Cramming too many students into too small of a space for labs results in broken equipment and increases the potential for injuries (and resulted in my blood pressure going through the roof of lab days).
While the union can't demand respect for teachers, they can make the working environment better and increase the teacher's ability to teach well. Also, decent pay kind of makes up for some of the crap teachers put up with. Not that teachers are in it for the pay but when you add not being able to provide for your own family the way you want to the mix, life gets miserable really fast and you don't feel good about yourself when what you do is not valued. While we can't force respect, wages are one way we can say we value teachers. IMO, the reason teacher retirement plans and wages, in union districts, are what they are is to make up for the lack of respect in other areas.
I find this sad. I really thought that competition between schools would result in teachers being treated as professionals and the need for unions reduced. All that has happened is there are now two classes of teachers. The haves and have nots. I don't know why we can't seem to get society to treat teachers like professionals.
yes why stop the class for one student the student will just dislike your class more and may not show up at all the students just want any reason to stop the class you have just given them that
It will not make a difference. Teaching is a two person game. I was constantly singled out like that when I was younger. They couldn't hold my attention.
Did it make me like the subject/teacher more? Hardly. Pay attention and participate? No way. If anything I probably pulled back further.
I was a good student, but one time fell asleep when I was sick with a fever.
This teacher sounds like they are on a power trip trying to embarrass the student.
I noticed the real trouble makers never got this kind of treatment.
I was a good student, but one time fell asleep when I was sick with a fever.
This teacher sounds like they are on a power trip trying to embarrass the student.
I noticed the real trouble makers never got this kind of treatment.
Interesting comment because my daughter noticed a similar phenomenon when she was in high school.
Her school had security guards in the hallway and they mostly hasselled the good kids not the ones who needed to be disciplined. She developed her own *leave me alone* scowl which she would *put on* when she was in the hallway without a pass and the guards did not go near her when she was wearing that expression. She was a good kid, but sometimes could not be troubled to get a pass when she was going to the theater to do some job for her mentor (the technical theater teacher).
Her brother, otoh, was an honor student who didn't have a clue how to get around the guards. He once had permission to go to his locker from his ap physics teacher, but forgot to get a written pass. They wrote him up and made him serve detention despite the fact that the teacher told them he was the one who forgot to give the pass. (The locker was right outside the physics lab). He had to serve the detention despite the teacher's sticking up for him.
Interesting comment because my daughter noticed a similar phenomenon when she was in high school.
Her school had security guards in the hallway and they mostly hasselled the good kids not the ones who needed to be disciplined. She developed her own *leave me alone* scowl which she would *put on* when she was in the hallway without a pass and the guards did not go near her when she was wearing that expression. She was a good kid, but sometimes could not be troubled to get a pass when she was going to the theater to do some job for her mentor (the technical theater teacher).
Her brother, otoh, was an honor student who didn't have a clue how to get around the guards. He once had permission to go to his locker from his ap physics teacher, but forgot to get a written pass. They wrote him up and made him serve detention despite the fact that the teacher told them he was the one who forgot to give the pass. (The locker was right outside the physics lab). He had to serve the detention despite the teacher's sticking up for him.
I've seen this too. My daughter, who was an honor roll student and never got in trouble, said one time they got out of a class late. She and two others went to the cafeteria, as they had not been able to have lunch. They went through the line and then were told by a monitor they were to leave, as the lunch time was changing. They said they just got there and were going to eat, and were let out of their prior class late. The monitor threatened them with getting them detentions. One kid said he had paid for his lunch and was going to eat it.
I told her if they had tried to detention her, I would have gone up there. She told me that kids would say the f word to teachers, who would pretend they never heard it. She told me one time she told this one kid to stop it, that it was so disrespectful to the teacher. But she noticed the same thing as you. The teachers were afraid of the real trouble makers and went after the good kids. They were probably afraid of the trouble makers' parents too. This is so wrong.
The case you talked about...the parents should have let the principal know they were going to see an attorney. Unfortunately, that is the only thing that gets fairness anymore. Schools patronize the bad students horribly.
I have a friend who uses a squirt gun. I'm kind of surprised she can get away with it.
I'd like to find a tactic that works here. Unfortunately, chemistry is hard not to teach in lecture format. It doesn't, exactly, lend itself to investigative style learning. My ideal solution would be to change up activities so often there's no time to fall asleep. I'll still be working on this in 10 years.
Don't know about chemistry, but the very best math teachers that my kids had did several things intended to keep kids awake without having to resort to any of these methods.
1. They always has a *bell ringer* that was to be completed about 5 minutes after the class started. Kids who were there *early* had a bit of extra time to complete the bell ringer which was counted as part of their grade.
2. They expected the kids to have read the book and done their homework.
Sometimes they gave quizzes that consisted of a single problem or two problems directly from the homework.
3. These teachers did not spend a long time going over homework. They often had the kids put the numbers of problems they had trouble with on the board and then went over only numbers that had lots of people who needed help. For the others, they expected kids to get with other kids who did understand the problems.
4. The work was difficult, but these teachers had a way of explaining it that made it easier. They also accepted mistakes and turned them into teachable moments.
5. They had a reward system for kids who were working hard on things. One teacher had a statue of The Thinker that he would put on the desk of a kid who was working hard or who came up with a really good question about the work. The kids were very interested in being awarded the thinker. Another teacher had small *warm fuzzies* that she used when she saw a kid who seemed a bit down. These were intended to show that the kids could come talk to her after class if they had a problem. These were used for random acts of kindness too. If a student was particularly kind to another student, they might get the warm fuzzy award.
6. The teacher was almost never in front of the class. They wandered around the room while the students worked on problems. They constantly looked for those teachable moments and looked for misunderstandings of the ideas so they could correct them.
7. These teachers were not intimidated by the kids who sometimes knew more than they did. If they did not know something, they admitted it and said *let's find out together.* One of the top students and one of my favorite quotes from him - "Why should my learning be limited by your knowledge?*
8. In case you think that these teachers *only* taught the honors and AP kids, you would be wrong. One of them was the best teacher for the kids who had very low math skills as well as the honors kids. He had a knack for making the concepts understandable to those kids too. I still have some of his materials in my files. He was able to make kids who had never done well in math think. He eased math anxiety by making sure the kids were able to do the work.
Don't know about chemistry, but the very best math teachers that my kids had did several things intended to keep kids awake without having to resort to any of these methods.
1. They always has a *bell ringer* that was to be completed about 5 minutes after the class started. Kids who were there *early* had a bit of extra time to complete the bell ringer which was counted as part of their grade.
2. They expected the kids to have read the book and done their homework.
Sometimes they gave quizzes that consisted of a single problem or two problems directly from the homework.
3. These teachers did not spend a long time going over homework. They often had the kids put the numbers of problems they had trouble with on the board and then went over only numbers that had lots of people who needed help. For the others, they expected kids to get with other kids who did understand the problems.
4. The work was difficult, but these teachers had a way of explaining it that made it easier. They also accepted mistakes and turned them into teachable moments.
5. They had a reward system for kids who were working hard on things. One teacher had a statue of The Thinker that he would put on the desk of a kid who was working hard or who came up with a really good question about the work. The kids were very interested in being awarded the thinker. Another teacher had small *warm fuzzies* that she used when she saw a kid who seemed a bit down. These were intended to show that the kids could come talk to her after class if they had a problem. These were used for random acts of kindness too. If a student was particularly kind to another student, they might get the warm fuzzy award.
6. The teacher was almost never in front of the class. They wandered around the room while the students worked on problems. They constantly looked for those teachable moments and looked for misunderstandings of the ideas so they could correct them.
7. These teachers were not intimidated by the kids who sometimes knew more than they did. If they did not know something, they admitted it and said *let's find out together.* One of the top students and one of my favorite quotes from him - "Why should my learning be limited by your knowledge?*
8. In case you think that these teachers *only* taught the honors and AP kids, you would be wrong. One of them was the best teacher for the kids who had very low math skills as well as the honors kids. He had a knack for making the concepts understandable to those kids too. I still have some of his materials in my files. He was able to make kids who had never done well in math think. He eased math anxiety by making sure the kids were able to do the work.
Dorothy
Thanks. I already do bell ringers. I like the idea of reading or homework quizzes. Because I go over homework in class (just the problems they ask about), I find that too many students will simply wait for me to do them in class. That defeats the purpose of homework.
I also have no issue admitting I don't know something. I had one student last year though who thought if she could come up with a question I couldn't answer it meant she was smarter than me . I get the impression that many teachers don't admit when they don't know something. My brain only holds so much at the surface, lol.
Thanks. I already do bell ringers. I like the idea of reading or homework quizzes. Because I go over homework in class (just the problems they ask about), I find that too many students will simply wait for me to do them in class. That defeats the purpose of homework.
I also have no issue admitting I don't know something. I had one student last year though who thought if she could come up with a question I couldn't answer it meant she was smarter than me . I get the impression that many teachers don't admit when they don't know something. My brain only holds so much at the surface, lol.
Kudos! The smartest people in the world have admitted they didn't know somethings. Einstein was one of them.
That student trying to trip you up was a lack of respect. Trying to find something you couldn't flip off the top of your head was disrespectful.
What do you think of this as an instructional technique. In High School the teacher gets frustrated that the students are not listening to him, so in the middle of his presentation he looks out into the class and finds the sleeping students and walks up to them and asks them to go up to the front of the class and repeat what he just told the class. Of course the sleeping student has no idea what to say because he or she has been day dreaming. The rest of the class laughs at the sleeping student making a fool of himself. The teacher is angry that he was not being listened by some people in class and the previously sleeping student returned to his desk red faced.
The next class session has few sleeping students but the self esteem of the bored sleeping students is ruined. Is the teachers approach too harsh?
One of the reasons why I hated school, hated the "process" of education, hated the whole construct that they artifically create, "for your best interest".
1st- Kids learn in different ways! You can't expect 35 kids in a class to be monotonous robots all day long. Some may study before class, after, after they get home from school, etc. Just because you're not awake at a certain moment in time in class, doesn't mean you're a bad student, or you don't know what you're doing.
But the onus is always on YOU to defend yourself. You have no say in the matter, in k-12, and always made the victim. They're "right" (because they are authority figures).
2nd - Govt school is mentally exhausting, no wonder kids sleep in class. You're basically on a treadmill for 7-8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 9 months out of the year. Always told to "perform".
3rd - And basically the law of averages. Take any group of people for a long period of time, and some will be caught sleeping, some are wide awake, eager to take notes, etc.
But the big problem I have with k-12 is this expectation, assumption, that you've always got to be "on" as a student. Any wonder drop out rates are 30-50% in some areas. Here in los angeles, its some astronomical number. Any little excuse is made to punish you. Outside of school, people learn in all sorts of ways...reading a book in the park, reading at the bookstore, engaging in a group activity at a park, etc. Confined classroom learning isnt for everyone. And to be "punished" for that, isnt really right.
I think if kids could go through school at their own pace, the results would be astounding.
I never would have talked to my teachers the way students and parents talk to me. I wouldn't have fallen asleep in class, I wouldn't have talked over the teacher (sure we forgot and talked but it was "I'm sorry Ma'am" when called on it.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I really wonder why there is such disrespect for teachers.
Hmmm. Ask yourself why things were the way they used to be in your first quote above and what changed, and I'll wager that you'll find your answer right there...
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. I get the impression that many teachers don't admit when they don't know something. My brain only holds so much at the surface, lol.