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Wanted more clarification on your advice...
I'm thinking about becoming a STEM teacher (getting a MAT in middle grades math and sci).
Do you think it will matter much that I don't have an undergrad in math or a sci? Does it affect which teachers get hired?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
In my school the gym teachers also are in charge of all kinds of events but they are paid to do them over and above their salary. One thing about being a STEM teacher I don't like is that I don't get that opportunity. I asked to sponsor a club because I need the money but my principal said that would cut into the time I have available after school for tutoring so I wasn't allowed to do so.
I put in time after school setting up labs, tearing down labs and tutoring students that I am not paid for while the gym teachers coach sports and sponsor events they are paid for. I don't see this as fair at all. If I was paid for the time I have to put in after school, I'd be making as much as a gym teacher.
If I stay in teaching I'm looking very hard for a math job. No labs to set up or tear down, no chemical stores to maintain and waste to process. Thanks to changes in regulations I get to spend my summer relabeling everything in chemical stores with the new information that is required to be on the labels but that's just part of my job...while the gym teacher hosts summer basketball camp and gets paid for it.
And people wonder why it's hard to get STEM teachers.
And I can't refuse to do the labeling. It's my job to maintain chemical stores and answer to the fire Marshall and I just don't have time during the school year to get this done on top of everything else I have to do. I'll be honest, I'm tired of seeing teachers who don't have the kind of after school responsibility I do getting paid to take on extra responsibility and still working fewer hours than I do.
Moral of the story: If you're going into teaching don't go into science unless you like working lots of unpaid hours and are ok with watching your peers who have less work teaching their content picking up extra money working after school that you can't pick up because you have to be there to tutor students for free. If you want an appointment with most non science teachers in my building, you'd better make it right after school. If it's with a science teacher, after you get off work will be just fine because most of us are still in the building at 5:00 PM.
Yes, I wonder why I'm paid the same as a gym teacher. Less when you consider the extra work they can pick up that I just don't have time for.
Its not right to do that, the subkect may be different, but the work is basically the same. Thats why schools offer stipends
For science math and foreign languages
That's like saying it's not right to pay a doctor more than an EMS responder.
Wanted more clarification on your advice...
I'm thinking about becoming a STEM teacher (getting a MAT in middle grades math and sci).
Do you think it will matter much that I don't have an undergrad in math or a sci? Does it affect which teachers get hired?
Math is ok but stay away from science. Today is Friday, it's after 6 PM and I just got home. I spent three hours after school cleaning the lab and setting up Monday's lab and that's after having gotten up at 3:30 to do some grading. On Monday, I'll have to leave early to make a run to the grocery store for ice and then I'll stay late tearing down this lab. I have no freaking idea why the gym teacher is paid more to coach a sport but I'm not paid more to spend countless hours setting up all the labs the admins want to see kids doing. They don't just poof out of thin air nor can I set them up on my 50 minute prep.
Back when I was in high school the chemistry teacher had two prep hours and a TA to help with the set up and tear down. Now we're just supposed to do it all and be happy the gym teacher has all those opportunities to earn more money than we do. NOT. If I get the chance to get into math I will. It's a lot less work and pays more when you factor in that I would have time to sponsor clubs that are paid positions.
I wish I taught all math. Then all I'd have to do is write my lesson plans and grade tests. Good luck finding a math job though. Math is more glutted than chemistry. I'm one of a dozen applicants for a chemistry job and one of a hundred applicants for a math job. My advice is speak a second language. If you're bilingual, you'll have one up on the competition. It won't matter that you don't have an undergrad in science or math. Schools will take anyone who passes the state test that they like.
Its not right to do that, the subkect may be different, but the work is basically the same. Thats why schools offer stipends
For science math and foreign languages
There are no stipends for science or math where I teach. All teachers make the same unless they take on extra duties after school such as clubs or coaching a sport.
Wanted more clarification on your advice...
I'm thinking about becoming a STEM teacher (getting a MAT in middle grades math and sci).
Do you think it will matter much that I don't have an undergrad in math or a sci? Does it affect which teachers get hired?
No, provided you have taken enough of the right classes and can pass the praxis no one cares. I enjoyed teaching middle school science, but it really does require more prep time than most subjects. In my opinion, it is much easier on the teacher, as far as planning and prep, at the middle school level than the high school level. If you can manage their behavior, teaching middle school is one of the best gigs in education. If you can't manage their behavior, on the other hand, there probably isn't a more miserable gig in education.
Obviously most of you have never coached a day in your life. I am a 1st grade teacher and coach 2 sports after school. My tennis season begins in August and ends in late October, then I start preseason training for soccer in November and it finishes in May, after graduation. Most of my fellow coaches are busy all Summer with camps and optional trainings for their team. My job doesn't end at 3pm like most of the other teachers in my school. If we are practicing I leave school at 6pm but on game days, approximately 40 days a year between my 2 sports, I will leave school around 8-11pm. Every P.E. teacher in my school coaches at least 2 sports and some of them 3 sports and should make more then any teacher in the school who has gotten all their errands done and made dinner for their family while their fellow P.E. teachers have been running around a field all afternoon.
Also, if a P.E. teacher is "just throwing a ball out" they are not doing their job.
Obviously most of you have never coached a day in your life. I am a 1st grade teacher and coach 2 sports after school. My tennis season begins in August and ends in late October, then I start preseason training for soccer in November and it finishes in May, after graduation. Most of my fellow coaches are busy all Summer with camps and optional trainings for their team. My job doesn't end at 3pm like most of the other teachers in my school. If we are practicing I leave school at 6pm but on game days, approximately 40 days a year between my 2 sports, I will leave school around 8-11pm. Every P.E. teacher in my school coaches at least 2 sports and some of them 3 sports and should make more then any teacher in the school who has gotten all their errands done and made dinner for their family while their fellow P.E. teachers have been running around a field all afternoon.
Also, if a P.E. teacher is "just throwing a ball out" they are not doing their job.
If you read through all the posts in this thread you will find most certified teachers support your stance. The few that don't seem to be blind to the different difficulties involved in teaching other content areas in general.
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I have not read all of the posts in this thread as there are very many. I have read the first few pages and I must say some of the attitudes is EXACTLY why the health of our nation is declining and obesity/heart disease rates are very high. Education involves education the WHOLE student. Which includes physical education. Students need to be aware of the importance/benefits of regular physical activity, healthy eating practices, etc.
Unfortunately, even school administrators and probably some physical educators have not done their job(rolling balls out and ignoring the students instead of actually educating them on health/fitness). This has lead to the dismissal of the importance of PE.
To Whom It May Concern, Education: Why do Physical Educators get paid they same as academic teachers? I will begin with my personal experience. I have been a classroom teacher and physical education teacher for K-9th grade. I have a B.S. in Kinesiology which has as many units as some engineer programs. Although some physical education teachers get B.A. in Kinesiology which is different. My program in Kinesiology was a teaching program. This means i had been trained to teach Physical Education for different grades and sports. Then, i had to repeat a 2 year teaching program. I found most people had little teaching experience and just majored in one subject with a 2 yr. teaching program. It appears i have had more training as a teacher building lessons, curriculum, integrating other subjects, connecting activities that support all ages, genders, and abilities than most classroom teachers. This all happened before i entered a paying job in the field.
Training/Experience: I had a 2yr student teaching program and worked as a contracted physical education teacher before i got hired as a middle school physical education teacher. I was in charge of teaching physical education with a set curriculum and lessons that built on each other over the years for grades K-6th. It was a high energy job that required good physical health, managing different classrooms, meeting the needs of the teachers for each class, and much more. What the students learned in the class was integrated into the physical education classes. I was always on my feet and thinking of new ways to meet standards in a creative way. Not to mention moving equipment,locations frequently, and using a loud outdoor voice all the time. Try yelling all day! It is draining. Also, have have you ever had to teach in the elements? Physical education teachers have to teach on hot days, cold days, foggy days, windy days! Like most teachers i have to update and continue my education through units and conferences. I have to tell you my job is academic and physical. The new standards require it.
Comparison: I have taught inside the classroom as well as outside. There are many similarities such as teaching units, lessons, modifications, scaffolding, etc. The difference is physical education teachers have to deal with social issues related to the locker room, fundraise for equipment, coach responsibilities, teach in different weather elements, manage larger groups of students, keep on their feet (we rarely sit), use an outside voice, set up and put away heavy equipment, deal with health issues (asthma/eating disorders/obesity, etc.). Some of the health issues a classroom teacher does not have to know about but in physical education class they can get hurt. I did read above that we do not have papers to grade. I do grade a written portfolio and have benchmarks to assess. As well as a fitness test that the state requires the physical education teacher gives and fill in their scores. Most classroom teachers give them a test and just collect the forms. They do not have to bubble their answers. The job of a physical educator is changing with the times. It will be interesting to see how common core impacts all teachers.
Common Core: The last 2 years i have taught a class called The Science of Physical Education. We have to integrate both subjects. If you have any knowledge of Kinesiology you would know it is the study of movement science. It is excited to get them to collaborate on develop work that makes them move, develop, critically analyze science and physical education! Common core is already being taught in our middle school class which we are lucky to teach inside and outside! I hope that everyone learns to appreciate their physical education teachers. Our job requires much more than playing games! If you do not believe me try it! You might be surprised! Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Elective and Academic Teacher
I've spot-subbed for one of the gym teachers in my building a few times this year, and although I don't believe that the job is as intellectually challenging as some other teaching positions, by no means is teaching gym an easy assignment.
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