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You know what's funny? Society valued what I did as an engineer more than I did. To me it was just another day at the office. It's sad when you realize that everything you've ever done is, ultimately, headed for a junk yard. At least teaching kids affords the possibility of making a difference in someone's life that could live on.
I have no idea why society would value me as an engineer but not as an educator of society's children.
And I'm not asking to be loved or patted on the back. I'm not asking to be held up as I was as an engineer (I was uncomfortable with that) Just don't diss me. My ed degree is not reason to look down on me and treat me like I do a job anyone can do or tell me I don't have a real job or I only work my job for the summers off. This is the hardest job I've ever done.
Yes your job as engineer created many products that ended up in the junkyard. But we did get a lot of utility value from them before they did. Look around you at the community your kids live in and you now work in. From your description and that of others many are urban, poor and dysfunctional. Sorta like a human junkyard. How utility did society get out of the citizens who came out of those neighborhood schools? Which has given the greater society more utility and worth before becoming of little societal contribution? Your product as an Engineer or the products of many urban schools and many schools elsewhere. Doesn't California and a few other states have a dropout rate in excess of 25%? Did the product you produced have a failrure rate that high?
Oh yeah and the product you engineered we had a choice about buying. Public education we don't. Until recently business was allowed to fail and go out of business. Public schools just continue on and on with more cost and higher salaries regardless of producing a quality product or not.
Yup Engineers are more easily fired than teachers so assumptions about quality of are easier to make.
Good point. I know for me when I have to start teaching my 4th graders how a circuit works, I HAD NO CLUE. So, I went to a science 101 training fore elementary teachers, and took a crash course on electricity and magnetism, and it helped me learn some concepts and things I hadn't ever known about Physical Science that I had to struggle with and teach.
Today, I teach those lessons with ease, and I make it a point to start my lesson first with my students looking at the components of a circuit as a classroom demonstration, dividing my kids into groups of two or 4, giving them the bulb, wires, batteries, and simply tell them make the bulb light using those materials---all hands on for them.
I am always blown away how fast my students quickly learn the vocabulary and concepts simply by allowing them to figure out how a circuit works on their own. Before, I would just give them the boring vocabulary, define the vocabulary for them, and then test them on what they learned because I couldn't explain myself what made a circuit work and the science behind it. Now that's called refining my practices, and I am happy to say that I have been refining a lot of what I have been doing these last 5 years because I have been fortunate enough to have a young principal who wants more for our students instead of complacent teachers who aren't growing as a result.
I always got the feeling from my kids' ele teachers that they weren't very comfortable with math and science. When my daughter went to a college with a large education school, she verified that for me. It always struck me that come Science Fair time, some of the teachers were out of their league, and I often felt that's why so many "glitzy" projects that really didn't show much learning, or that seemed to come from a book, seemed to win.
I always got the feeling from my kids' ele teachers that they weren't very comfortable with math and science. When my daughter went to a college with a large education school, she verified that for me. It always struck me that come Science Fair time, some of the teachers were out of their league, and I often felt that's why so many "glitzy" projects that really didn't show much learning, or that seemed to come from a book, seemed to win.
Yup and as presented in other discussions math anxiety is a major problem with Elementary teachers.
It's not an issue of wanting to be loved. I don't care if you love me but I should be respected. I did a lot less as an engineer but I was respected. I do a much more important job now and I'm dissed??? No one deserves disrespect. The degrees, training and certification that teachers go through should be respected.
Degrees, training, and certification mean nothing without job performance. Look at the legal profession, Lawyers have far more education, training, and certifications than teachers, and yet who respect lawyers? They have turned their profession into a money grubbing cesspool. If they had the ethics and morality people expect of the profession, they would have respect. If teachers worked half as hard at making sure they truly educated young people and gave them the tools they needed to be functioning citizens, rather that ensuring they keep their own short hours and abundant benefits, they would be respected too.
Degrees, training, and certification mean nothing without job performance. Look at the legal profession, Lawyers have far more education, training, and certifications than teachers, and yet who respect lawyers? They have turned their profession into a money grubbing cesspool. If they had the ethics and morality people expect of the profession, they would have respect. If teachers worked half as hard at making sure they truly educated young people and gave them the tools they needed to be functioning citizens, rather that ensuring they keep their own short hours and abundant benefits, they would be respected too.
Society values outputs and not the challenge you face in doing your job. Sales people have territories that vary from terrible to awesome.
There is no sympathy for the salesperson with the terrible territory but respect for the highly successful salesperson regardless of territory. We don't handicap our respect for the success people have in their work.
You know what's funny? Society valued what I did as an engineer more than I did. To me it was just another day at the office. It's sad when you realize that everything you've ever done is, ultimately, headed for a junk yard. At least teaching kids affords the possibility of making a difference in someone's life that could live on.
I have no idea why society would value me as an engineer but not as an educator of society's children.
And I'm not asking to be loved or patted on the back. I'm not asking to be held up as I was as an engineer (I was uncomfortable with that) Just don't diss me. My ed degree is not reason to look down on me and treat me like I do a job anyone can do or tell me I don't have a real job or I only work my job for the summers off. This is the hardest job I've ever done.
I do not think teacher have never been recognized, paywise, for the job they do. However, I think they were respected a lot more in yesteryears than today.
I believe today the pay educators pay is so low that in some people get into it for a variety of reasons. In some cases some people do get into teaching because is the easier way to get a check, sadly but I believe it is true and we all pay the price.
The sad part is that there are a lot extremely dedicated teachers that truly join the profession because they love what they do despite the low pay and the lack of recognition. They have the whole societal picture in mind by helping shape the future of our country.
I am seriously thinking of either becoming a teacher or an ROTC intructor when I retire from the Army next year.
I do volunteer work at the school outised Ft. Bliss and I do not see the support for the teachers from parents and school districts. Teachers unions are very strong and to me are hurting our education of our children.
I completely disagree with user_id, a degree is a degree no matter where you study. If user_id new anything, they would know that a degree must pass certain criteria to be recognised and be qualified. For instance, if I studied in India and went to the United States, I would be told I need to complete such and such criteria in order to be able to practice in the country. I think user_id does not have a degree and is bitter about it, or is just a poorly educated person.
To the original question. I think teachers are not respected, but they should be. Teachers are the scapegoats to the problems in society. Teachers get blamed for all the dumb people out in society. The truth of the matter is you can only do so much for students, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". I've seen students get handed a task and just stare at it and do no work. When I walk up to the student, they claim they were reading, I cover the words and say, " okay, what did you just read" and then the student says " I can't your covering it", so i respond so you werent reading, and then instruct student to answer the questions. Student argues, "I was reading", I say, "I was watching you, you were not and you couldnt even recall anything", student continues to lie " I was reading". I saw okay, but you need to complete these questions (easy questions) or stay back with me after school and finish them. Basically, you need to threaten students by removing breaks and keeping them back, but at the end of the day, this kid will get away with doing nothing most of the time and do no work at home and when his parents complain that he failed, the student will lie and say he was trying. Teachers should be able to say your child is lazy and you need to make sure and push him to do his work because when I (the teacher) isn't doing it, he won't. But no, parents don't like the word lazy and to save us from getting blasted by parents, we say unmotivated as code and then parents do nothing. I am an excellent teacher and some students like the one I described, doesn't chat he just sits quietly day dreaming. I explain something and then ask a question, he doesn't even know what I asked. You can't force a child to listen or learn. Teachers are the scapegoats and along with blame comes disrespect
Some teachers are respected. Many are not. But, don't you think it has more to do with the reputation the individual teachers establish for themselves? Unfortunately, the bad ones -- 'bad' for whatever reason(s) -- contribute to the overall disrespect for the profession. I don't think we're treated with any more disrespect than, say, poor lawyers.
You make your reputation, and you earn respect. It isn't handed out with a degree in Education.
Degrees, training, and certification mean nothing without job performance. Look at the legal profession, Lawyers have far more education, training, and certifications than teachers, and yet who respect lawyers? They have turned their profession into a money grubbing cesspool. If they had the ethics and morality people expect of the profession, they would have respect. If teachers worked half as hard at making sure they truly educated young people and gave them the tools they needed to be functioning citizens, rather that ensuring they keep their own short hours and abundant benefits, they would be respected too.
The assumption should be I am capable of doing my job. The assumption is I'm a slacker and have to prove myself. The degrees and experience show I have enough on the ball to get he degrees and experience and that is something. Just having an engineering degree put me in a position to be respected before I did anything. Great things were EXPECTED of me. It was assumed I'd do my job and do it well. In teaching, I think they assume I'm going to skip class
If degrees and certificates mean nothing then why require them at all? Answer: Because they demonstrate PAST PERFORMANCE. To get this job, I had to pass 80 credits in chemistry, 30 credits in physics and 32 credits in math plus 36 credits in an ed major followed by passing four exams that many don't pass. I'm sorry but that IS something and it's not something to be dissed.
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