Those Who Can Do/Those Who Can't Teach (state school, highest, student)
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Where in this thread and recent threads was it ever said that teachers are happy with the educational system as it is?
Also, TuborgP, you said you were a teacher. Did you teach in the inner city?
His comments were about education in general. With regards to my teaching experience I grew up in what in now very hard core inner city and was the equivalent of in many ways back in the day. My first year teaching was with inner city kids and my suburban experience included a mix of very affluent with some section 8 mixed in. If the inner city isn't your thing then change. Never said it was easy but it is the car you purchased to ride for your professional career if that is where one teaches. If teachers don't support their unions why do they elect the same leadership and pay their dues?
Not every sales rep gets the best territory. Not every fast food manager gets the best neighborhood. Not every insurance agent gets the most affluent and credit worthy clients etc etc. There are others beside teachers who find their employment working with the same folks.
You want to know who really has it tough in the inner city? I will tell you:
Cab Drivers
Fast food delivery folks
Liquor store owners
Small business operators
Police
Fire Fighters
Sanitation folks
Etc
Oh yeah public utility workers both repair folks and meter readers.
Ever try working on a gas leak in the hood in 99 degree heat?
I know it is tough teaching in the inner city but a lot of things in life are tough and that's why it's called life. At least you have a choice the poor usually don't. You get to leave they don't.
Isn't this what you tell your students that life is tough and the more options you give yourself the greater control you have over life and the pitfalls that are inevitable? Don't you tell your students that the path to having the future that they can have is through working and listening to your advice and the content your are trying to teach? You gave yourself options and are exercising them. You are teaching where you are by choice and if you wanted could and possibly will at some point opt for something different.
His comments were about education in general. With regards to my teaching experience I grew up in what in now very hard core inner city and was the equivalent of in many ways back in the day. My first year teaching was with inner city kids and my suburban experience included a mix of very affluent with some section 8 mixed in. If the inner city isn't your thing then change. Never said it was easy but it is the car you purchased to ride for your professional career if that is where one teaches. If teachers don't support their unions why do they elect the same leadership and pay their dues?
I'm not all that certain that I want to go to the suburbs. That would be a whole different thread anyway. I was just curious about where you taught.
Union dues are not optional. You have to pay them whether you are supportive of it or not. There are plenty of teachers who disagree with the way the union operates. Still, every single month, the money is taken out (at least where I teach).
This thread has already taken so many twists and turns that I won't get into what is wrong with the school system. If someone starts a new thread, maybe I'll weigh in on that one. And yes, teachers do have to take some of the blame.
I'm not all that certain that I want to go to the suburbs. That would be a whole different thread anyway. I was just curious about where you taught.
Union dues are not optional. You have to pay them whether you are supportive of it or not. There are plenty of teachers who disagree with the way the union operates. Still, every single month, the money is taken out (at least where I teach).
This thread has already taken so many twists and turns that I won't get into what is wrong with the school system. If someone starts a new thread, maybe I'll weigh in on that one. And yes, teachers do have to take some of the blame.
Dude you have your head screwed on correctly and have a sense of who you are and what you are doing. My guess is you listen to some of your colleagues to much. It is easier in the profession to go along with the complaining flow then to stand up and say no to your professional organization etc. You quite possibly might not like the suburbs. There are many excellent teachers who prefer the urban setting. Check and see what union memberships requirements are in your district. It is different and you may have choices.
You may want to ask yourself how our superior college system works without this so called "foundation" being a requirement.
Well, most of my professors in my engineering program were foriegn so I'd say it isn't on what we teach. My professors for my MAT program were mostly seasoned veteran public school teachers so they brought their foundation and experience to the classroom.
However, teaching college is way different than teaching secondary school because there's a huge difference in the student. Part of the challenge, at the secondary level, is accomodating different learning styles. In college you don't have to accomodate anything. They pass or they fail and if they fail they're weeded out. Just teaching chemistry and physics are really different experiences. In my school, all students take chemistry but physics is an elective. My physics classes are easy compared to my chemistry classes because the kids want to be there and they want to learn. Not so in chemistry where 75% of the kids don't want to be there and see no reason why they need to learn the subject. Try teaching them without some of that foundation you feel is so worthless.
Like I said I already argued my position in another thread. I agree knowing your subject is not enough, but credentials do not effectively create good teachers. It is best to actually screen out the teachers in the wild as is done in the college system.
Requiring a few education courses is one thing and draconian credential program is another.
Why bother licensing doctors and dentists and even veternarians, then? Is it enough for them to 'know their subject'?
Well, most of my professors in my engineering program were foriegn so I'd say it isn't on what we teach. My professors for my MAT program were mostly seasoned veteran public school teachers so they brought their foundation and experience to the classroom.
However, teaching college is way different than teaching secondary school because there's a huge difference in the student. Part of the challenge, at the secondary level, is accomodating different learning styles. In college you don't have to accomodate anything. They pass or they fail and if they fail they're weeded out. Just teaching chemistry and physics are really different experiences. In my school, all students take chemistry but physics is an elective. My physics classes are easy compared to my chemistry classes because the kids want to be there and they want to learn. Not so in chemistry where 75% of the kids don't want to be there and see no reason why they need to learn the subject. Try teaching them without some of that foundation you feel is so worthless.
However, teaching college is way different than teaching secondary school because there's a huge difference in the student. Part of the challenge, at the secondary level, is accomodating different learning styles. In college you don't have to accomodate anything.
Firstly, there is not a "huge difference" between a high school and a community college in terms of the students. Students progressively mature over time, they don't mature all at once the summer after their senior year. Community college is essentially 13th grade for many.
Secondary school accommodates different styles of learning? Haha, you could have fooled me! Students don't receive individualized education at any level in this nation. In primary/secondary at best (err...worst) they will be placed in special ed for part of or the whole school day. But they don't really receive individualized education in these classes, just dumbed down education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
They pass or they fail and if they fail they're weeded out.
Oh yes, kids aren't weeded out of the primary and secondary system at all! haha...
Anyhow, our college system is superior to our secondary system yet it does not require any credential. Hell it does not even require a single course in education! The only major difference between high school and college is the maturity level of the students, but getting a credential does not make you good at dealing with teenagers or any other age group.
Anyhow, I believe our college system demonstrates rather nicely that you do not need to require credentials. Much of the same policies can be used in secondary schools. I'm actually not completely against teaching credentials, they offer a way for new graduates with zero experience to gain some teaching knowledge. The problem is that its the only qualification that counts! Experience? Who cares. Grad degree? Who cares. etc. There should be more than one way to become a teacher. The credential programs work well for a particular class of people, but there are a lot of other qualified folks that are getting shut out. In the end it short changes the students.
Why bother licensing doctors and dentists and even veternarians, then? Is it enough for them to 'know their subject'?
Stop comparing teachers to doctors, etc. There is no comparison. Our entire university/college system (which again is superior) works well without licensing, not to mention a number of private schools.
Maybe I need to start a new thread on what LICENSING MEANS. Licenses ARE GIVEN, especially to TEACHERS, DOCTORS, AND NURSES, IN ORDER TO SHOW that THEY are COMPETENT, CAPABLE, AND WELL TRAINED TO DO A PROFESSIONAL JOB. I GUESS THAT IS WHY WE CALL PEOPLE WHO NEED A LICENSE TO DO THEIR JOBS---PROFESSIONALS.
So in a sense Doctors, Teachers, Lawyers, Nurses, and Real Estate agents can be compared professionally because of the fact that they ALL have to be COMPETENT AND WELL TRAINED (which by the way is on going in order for them to stay educated on the latest research and techniques that are required of them to do their jobs better or well.)
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