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Could be a lot of it for preparing the land for building on for one thing, although that probably wouldn't account for $10mil.
The reason cities kick in large amounts for stuff like this is simple. Sales tax and increased overall revenue for the city. If people come to Oak Ridge to do their shopping instead of going to Knoxville, they also dine, buy gas, etc. Its an overall boost to the economy of the city if you've ever seen how many people are at Super Target from open to close. I would be surprised if a day went by when 1000 people + didn't come in.
Anyway, Super Targets are great. Where I lived in TX had about 6 of them within a 40 mile radius. I live in Knoxville and would love it if they built one in Oak Ridge because it would make the Knoxville location slightly less crowded.
Cities do often contribute money towards the construction of shopping centers, usually in the form of improved roads, utilities, sewage, etc. But $10 million is excessive. It'll take 15-20 years for the city of Oak Ridge to recoup its investment, and that's not even guaranteed considering Oak Ridge's population hasn't grown in 30 years.
When one walks down an aisle full of duct tape that consists of every color found in the rainbow, perhaps "it" has gone a little to far? Although that blue duct tape sure does hold my car bumper on extremely well, and looks great too!
Is my favorite. I do have a gripe, however. We are going on a cruise in Feb. (our first) and one of the items highly recommended for taking is Duck Tape in a flat roll. Makes it easier to pack. Purportedly easy to find.
I've been to every store imaginable including the local hardware. None to be found. My solution? I bought a 10 yard roll in Ace and stood on it. Instant flat roll.
BTW, I view Super Target as a clone of Super WalMart. Just another chip cut out of the trunk in the falling tree of small businesses everywhere. I go there because there are no small businesses left to visit. Nice store, but I'd prefer a corner store where the owners know everyone...
The reason cities kick in large amounts for stuff like this is simple.
Yes, it is simple. Businesses have figured out that if they threaten to build in the next town over the cities will cave into demands.
10 million for Target is likely a weeks worth of profit.
"By Ylan Q. Mui
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 15, 2006; Page D03
Target's profit jumped 16 percent in the third quarter, to $506 million from $435 million. Revenue was up 11 percent, to $13.57 billion. Officials attributed the growth to strong comparable-store sales growth of 4.6 percent, new store openings and its credit card operations."
Oops, actually 42 million dollars a week. So I guess it's more of a "let's rip off the cities and their people even before we build" attitude.
Yes, it is simple. Businesses have figured out that if they threaten to build in the next town over the cities will cave into demands.
10 million for Target is likely a weeks worth of profit.
"By Ylan Q. Mui
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 15, 2006; Page D03
Target's profit jumped 16 percent in the third quarter, to $506 million from $435 million. Revenue was up 11 percent, to $13.57 billion. Officials attributed the growth to strong comparable-store sales growth of 4.6 percent, new store openings and its credit card operations."
Oops, actually 42 million dollars a week. So I guess it's more of a "let's rip off the cities and their people even before we build" attitude.
Yeah, $10 million is a drop in the bucket for Target, which makes me question why they need the city of Oak Ridge to pony up $10 million. The city of Oak Ridge will NOT see $10 million in additional sales tax revenue, at least not for a long, long time. And if Target will make so much money from that store, then why can't they pay for it themselves?
I'm with you about the mom-and-pop stores. I think it's sad that in our society we think that big is always better. I think it's sad that cities will give big corporations like Target or Wal-Mart or Home Depot, etc., millions in tax breaks and infrastructure improvements but won't do a thing to help mom-and-pop stores.
That's actually one of the reasons why I love living in the city. The big-box stores are out in the suburbs, but here in the center of Knoxville there are a bunch of mom-and-pop stores, restaurants, cafes, etc. And like I said when I was in Cookeville the other day, it was nice to be able to walk to a plethora of mom-and-pop shops all in downtown.
But I wouldn't doubt that Oak Ridge will do it. I think Oak Ridge is so desperate for growth of any kind that they'll gladly write a check for $10 million just so they can brag that they've got a Super Target.
But I wouldn't doubt that Oak Ridge will do it. I think Oak Ridge is so desperate for growth of any kind that they'll gladly write a check for $10 million just so they can brag that they've got a Super Target.
I don't think bragging has anything to do with it. Oak Ridge would rather have its citizens spend their money in Oak Ridge than Knoxville. It's that simple.
Oak Ridge is going to have bigger fish to fry if the new Congress doesn't soon make a decision about the federal budget and stop passing continuing resolutions. Some of the big programs (like the supercomputer) on the reservation may hang in the balance. As some in the town have noted, elite scientists are attracted to what's being done in all kinds of different innovative Oak Ridge Reservation programs. If Congress doesn't ante up for those programs, those scientists won't hang around the Oak Ridge area.
I don't think bragging has anything to do with it. Oak Ridge would rather have its citizens spend their money in Oak Ridge than Knoxville. It's that simple.
Oak Ridge is going to have bigger fish to fry if the new Congress doesn't soon make a decision about the federal budget and stop passing continuing resolutions. Some of the big programs (like the supercomputer) on the reservation may hang in the balance. As some in the town have noted, elite scientists are attracted to what's being done in all kinds of different innovative Oak Ridge Reservation programs. If Congress doesn't ante up for those programs, those scientists won't hang around the Oak Ridge area.
Yeah it is going to be interesting to see what happens if Congress doesn't give Oak Ridge the budget to maintain its current level of research. Oak Ridge has been battling that for years, and it's got to be frustrating.
Oak Ridge, Anderson County and the surrounding counties comprise one of the slowest-growing areas of Tennessee. There's a reason the mall in Oak Ridge went belly up; the area population just can't support large-scale retail. Look at all the restaurants in Oak Ridge that have also closed in the last 5-10 years.
And with the gargantual Turkey Creek development in West Knox, people in Roane County aren't going to flock to Oak Ridge (via a 2-lane highway) when they're a straight shot down I-40 from Turkey Creek).
Don't get me wrong, I still think Oak Ridge is a great community, but let's face it, it's not growing. If it were, then the shopping center developer could risk the $10 million himself and not worry about recovering his costs. As it stands, he wants the city of Oak Ridge to share a big chunk of the risk. And I guess I'm just an old-fashioned capitalist at heart, I just don't think a city should get involved in that. A city should build roads and provide utility lines and sewage, but that's about it. Otherwise, where will it stop? All those shopping center developers who have already invested their own money in Oak Ridge could have legitimate claims to CHA-CHING cash in on the city of Oak Ridge's generosity/desperation. And I would LOVE to see Oak Ridge try to weasel its way out of that if they do go ahead and give Target $10 million.
As a Massachusetts reporter I saw communities demand buffers, deny for wetland protections, etc. Developers groveled. When I got to Florida I was amazed. Officials looked the other way. Threat to the Florida panther? Developers would bring in their own on-the-payroll environmentalist and the development would be approved. Pave over the whole darn thing. There is little of the state really left. It is unrecognizable.
If I were a betting woman, and I'm not, I would bet that those disenchanted Floridians will be up here before you know it. In fact, I come across them everyday and believe me it is not pretty. Most of them are nasty folk.
This should be interesting to see how this will play out.
Some of them are afraid of Oak Ridge and may be hesitant to relocate there. Most of them have no idea what the Manhattan Project was, I guess they missed that day in school.
But I think that Oak Ridge should not jump at paying for a Super Target. The folks will go up Pellissippi Parkway? Not for long. Give it a year and Target will be begging to get in there.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Oak Ridge is a great community, but let's face it, it's not growing.
If I am not mistaken the City's plan is to grow the town with a combination of new housing and retail. It's a chicken and the egg kind of thing. There is all kinds of housing on the drawing board. A February 2006 newspaper story said 6,000 homes (apartments, townhomes and houses) were in the pipeline for the next decade. So, there is no more work needed to attract new developers. The City's job now is to attract people to move into the new assortment of home-types on the drawing board. I know one goal is to have more people who work in Oak Ridge, live in Oak Ridge so the idea is to provide an assortment of housing. I'm guessing one way to attract them to Oak Ridge instead of West Knoxville or Farragut, for example, is to offer more shopping. They've already got the schools and cultural activities going for them. Everybody loves a shorter commute.
Personally, I think the town size is just fine. I'd rather see the effort to reduce the crime rate in the County but I understand what they seem to be trying to accomplish.
As a Massachusetts reporter I saw communities demand buffers, deny for wetland protections, etc. Developers groveled. When I got to Florida I was amazed. Officials looked the other way. Threat to the Florida panther? Developers would bring in their own on-the-payroll environmentalist and the development would be approved. Pave over the whole darn thing. There is little of the state really left. It is unrecognizable.
If I were a betting woman, and I'm not, I would bet that those disenchanted Floridians will be up here before you know it. In fact, I come across them everyday and believe me it is not pretty. Most of them are nasty folk.
This should be interesting to see how this will play out.
Some of them are afraid of Oak Ridge and may be hesitant to relocate there. Most of them have no idea what the Manhattan Project was, I guess they missed that day in school.
But I think that Oak Ridge should not jump at paying for a Super Target. The folks will go up Pellissippi Parkway? Not for long. Give it a year and Target will be begging to get in there.
Gawd, I hope these locals realize what is coming.
Oh gosh I sure hope the mess that's going on in Florida doesn't find its way to Tennessee.
Anyway, this Oak Ridge thing is a stark contrast to what happened a couple of years ago in Cookeville. Sam's Club wanted to build a store in Cookeville, but their land was a few hundred feet off the main highway. At first, they wanted the city to build an access road. The city balked and said no, if Sam's Club wants to build away from the highway, then Sam's Club needs to build its own access road. And guess what? Sam's Club built its own access road.
Compare that to Target which apparently feels that it can't make money in Oak Ridge unless the city of Oak Ridge first gives them $10 million. And if that's the case, then Target shouldn't be there. Oak Ridgers don't have a "right" to a Super Target, no matter how many PhDs are in the city.
I also question the 6,000 housing units "in the pipeline" for the next decade in Oak Ridge. For starters, there are not "all kinds of housing" on the drawing board. Friends of mine in Oak Ridge are developing a new subdivision behind the Boeing plant, and it's the first new subdivision in Oak Ridge in years. The city council even said so when it went before them for approval.
The Oak Ridge population hasn't budged in 30 years. There have been 466 new homes built in Oak Ridge in the last 10 years, and most of those were replacement homes for older WW2-era shacks that were torn down. One of my developer friends said that the city really stretched those figures when it lured Home Depot to town (like how Atlanta fudged its weather statistics to lure the '96 Olympics). If there are 6,000 housing units in the pipeline, they're taking all of Anderson, Roane, Morgan, and Scott counties into consideration. And if the huge new retail development in Loudon County is built, then Oak Ridge can kiss Roane County shoppers good-bye (most of whom go to Turkey Creek in Knoxville anyway).
And if there really are 6,000 housing units in the pipeline around Oak Ridge, then why can't Target wait until there's a larger population before building a store? What's the big rush? Clearly they don't think there's enough demand for a store right now or they wouldn't need a $10 million gift from the city council to make the store profitable.
If I were a betting woman, and I'm not, I would bet that those disenchanted Floridians will be up here before you know it.
We could always invite them to church. The coyote, fire ant, sales tax, meth, I-40 traffic, brown recluse spider, air pollution, icy mountain road, snake, earthquake, tornado, gang and nuke stories don't seem to be working. But getting an invite to church seems to strike fear in their hearts.
...and if that doesn't work there is always lining up the trailers along the southern Tennessee border.
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Ah, Duck Tape!
So I guess it's more of a "let's rip off the cities and their people even before we build" attitude.
