Best Texas Downtown (Houston, Dallas, San Antonio: incomes, zoning, housing)

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

This poll is total bs. Downtown Dallas is at best the 5th most vibrant downtown in the state of Texas, and in terms of the wider sunbelt - a collection of generally weak downtowns, downtown Dallas is better than downtown Charlotte, OKC, and downtown Phoenix, but otherwise is WAY less vibrant than the downtowns in Los Angeles, San Diego, Austin, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Houston, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, and is roughly equivalent to the downtowns in Denver, Tulsa, Orlando, Sacramento, and Albuquerque. It has better urban bones than most, so the deserted, abandoned feel is even more prominent.

Dallas, as the capital of the southern plains is the most midwestern feeling big city in Texas, and its downtown pales in terms of vibrancy to downtown Indianapolis, St. Louis and Detroit. I wish downtown Dallas was better, and it appears that there are efforts in that direction, but right now of the top ten MSA's in terms of population, downtown Dallas is easily the WORST. Thank God for Fort Worth.

When was the last time you were in Downtown Dallas?

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

When was the last time you were in Downtown Dallas?

Late March, early April 2014. How much can it have changed in under two months?

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

This poll is total bs. Downtown Dallas is at best the 5th most vibrant downtown in the state of Texas, and in terms of the wider sunbelt - a collection of generally weak downtowns, downtown Dallas is better than downtown Charlotte, OKC, and downtown Phoenix, but otherwise is WAY less vibrant than the downtowns in Los Angeles, San Diego, Austin, Fort Worth, San Antonio, Houston, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, and is roughly equivalent to the downtowns in Denver, Tulsa, Orlando, Sacramento, and Albuquerque. It has better urban bones than most, so the deserted, abandoned feel is even more prominent.

Dallas, as the capital of the southern plains is the most midwestern feeling big city in Texas, and its downtown pales in terms of vibrancy to downtown Indianapolis, St. Louis and Detroit. I wish downtown Dallas was better, and it appears that there are efforts in that direction, but right now of the top ten MSA's in terms of population, downtown Dallas is easily the WORST. Thank God for Fort Worth.

In some parts yes, it can feel deserted. But, there are parts with vibrancy. Yes, I don't agree with the poll, but there's no reason to bash DT Dallas like this, IMO.

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by JKAddict

In some parts yes, it can feel deserted. But, there are parts with vibrancy. Yes, I don't agree with the poll, but there's no reason to bash DT Dallas like this, IMO.

Put a number on it. I say 80% of downtown Dallas is entirely deserted. As I wrote upthread, I walked nearly a mile on a beautiful Spring Sunday afternoon in late March this year through the much vaunted Arts district of downtown Dallas and saw not another pedestrian, NOT ONE. It was clean, there are some lovely buildings, every shop front - there were not many - closed. DEAD. I enjoyed my experience, but it felt eerie. You could not walk a block, never mind a mile, in downtown Austin or San Antonio or Fort Worth at an equivalent time without seeing hundreds of people on the streets, walking, shopping, eating, drinking. Even downtown Houston which can be super-quiet on a weekend afternoon feels more alive than downtown Dallas. It was surreal, towering buildings and not a person in sight? Why is downtown Dallas so lame, given all its urban advantages?

[RonnieinDallas]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

Put a number on it. I say 80% of downtown Dallas is entirely deserted. As I wrote upthread, I walked nearly a mile on a beautiful Spring Sunday afternoon in late March this year through the much vaunted Arts district of downtown Dallas and saw not another pedestrian, NOT ONE. It was clean, there are some lovely buildings, every shop front - there were not many - closed. DEAD. I enjoyed my experience, but it felt eerie. You could not walk a block, never mind a mile, in downtown Austin or San Antonio or Fort Worth at an equivalent time without seeing hundreds of people on the streets, walking, shopping, eating, drinking. Even downtown Houston which can be super-quiet on a weekend afternoon feels more alive than downtown Dallas. It was surreal, towering buildings and not a person in sight? Why is downtown Dallas so lame, given all its urban advantages?

I have a really hard time believing any of this, unless you were there early in the morning. The Arts District is right next to Klyde Warren Park, and it's always busy on the weekends. Plus, there are pretty big church crowds nearby. Main street is packed with brunch spots and there's always a big brunch/lunch/happy hour crowd. Main Street Park also stays busy on the weekends.

Here's what downtown actually looks like on an average day:
DOWNTOWN DALLAS, INC.: MAIN STREET DISTRICT - YouTube


Nothing like what was described above

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by RonnieinDallas

I have a really hard time believing any of this, unless you were there early in the morning. The Arts District is right next to Klyde Warren Park, and it's always busy on the weekends. Plus, there are pretty big church crowds nearby. Main street is packed with brunch spots and there's always a big brunch crowd after everyone got drunk on Saturday night. Main Street Park also stays busy on the weekends.

Around 2pm walking from the Adolphus Hotel to the Nasher Sculpture Center. Main Street had people, but not a soul past Elm Street till the Nasher, which was not particularly crowded either, which I kinda liked. There were some people in Klyde Warren Park which felt like a relief after walking nearly a mile through the quietest downtown of a major city that I have ever experienced.

Sure Main Street is kinda lively, but much less so than 6th or 4th or Red River or Rainey Street in Austin or Sundance Square in FW or the Riverwalk in San Antonio.

[RonnieinDallas]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

Around 2pm walking from the Adolphus Hotel to the Nasher Sculpture Center. Main Street had people, but not a soul past Elm Street till the Nasher, which was not particularly crowded either, which I kinda liked. There were some people in Klyde Warren Park which felt like a relief after walking nearly a mile through the quietest downtown of a major city that I have ever experienced.

Sure Main Street is kinda lively, but much less so than 6th or 4th or Red River or Rainey Street in Austin or Sundance Square in FW or the Riverwalk in San Antonio.

Hmm Elm and Main run parallel to one another, but I will concede that Elm doesn't have a lot going on other than Campisis. However, there are several buildings on Elm currently being renovated and that's why a lot of the retail moved out, so it will be improving soon.

Main, Commerce, and Elm St. are so much longer than those streets. You literally go from Deep Ellum to the West End, while it may not be continuous connected activity there's still a lot going on in that space. It's all slowly coming together and the Statler and 1401 Elm projects will definitely help stitch together the vibrant parts of downtown.

As far as day to day living Dallas is the best, and having the largest downtown population in Texas reflects that:

Downtown Dallas:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...Dallas-TX.html
Population - 12,855
[no downtown jail population]

Downtown Austin:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...Austin-TX.html
Population - 7226
[9595-2369(inmates in downtown)]
//www.city-data.com/city/Austin-Texas.html

Downtown San Antonio:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...ntonio-TX.html
Population - 4903

Downtown Houston:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...ouston-TX.html
Population - 3732
[12457-8725(inmates in downtown)]
//www.city-data.com/city/Houston-Texas.html

Downtown Fort Worth:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...-Worth-TX.html
Population - 3635
[7192-3537(inmates in downtown )]
//www.city-data.com/city/Fort-Worth-Texas.html

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by RonnieinDallas

Hmm Elm and Main run parallel to one another, but I will concede that Elm doesn't have a lot going on other than Campisis. However, there are several buildings on Elm currently being renovated and that's why a lot of the retail moved out, so it will be improving soon.

Main, Commerce, and Elm St. are so much longer than those streets. You literally go from Deep Ellum to the West End, while it may not be continuous connected activity there's still a lot going on in that space. It's all slowly coming together and the Statler and 1401 Elm projects will definitely help stitch together the vibrant parts of downtown.

As far as day to day living Dallas is the best, and having the largest downtown population in Texas reflects that:

Downtown Dallas:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...Dallas-TX.html
Population - 12,855
[no downtown jail population]

Downtown Austin:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...Austin-TX.html
Population - 7226
[9595-2369(inmates in downtown)]
//www.city-data.com/city/Austin-Texas.html

Downtown San Antonio:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...ntonio-TX.html
Population - 4903

Downtown Houston:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...ouston-TX.html
Population - 3732
[12457-8725(inmates in downtown)]
//www.city-data.com/city/Houston-Texas.html

Downtown Fort Worth:
//www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...-Worth-TX.html
Population - 3635
[7192-3537(inmates in downtown )]
//www.city-data.com/city/Fort-Worth-Texas.html

first off.. in your link, the area described for "downtown Dallas" is 4.3 sq miles? we all know downtown Dallas is 1.4 sq miles. boosting downtown population by including in an additional 2.9 sq miles? weak... according to Wikipedia, downtown Dallas' population in 2010 was just over 6,000.

not to mention that same link with faulty information for Dallas has some random/wrong boundaries for downtown Houston too. the real 1.9 sq mile downtown Houston has a population of over 14,000. if there are almost 9,000 inmates there, that means there are around 5,500 people living in downtown Houston. only 500 less than downtown Dallas...

so by your logic, the best downtowns should be

Austin
Dallas
Houston
San Antonio
Ft Worth

interesting because San Antonio and Ft Worth keep popping up in this thread as two of the most vibrant downtowns.
i guess once downtown Houston builds the 5,000 new residential units that it will become the best downtown in Texas since its population will be the largest...

[RonnieinDallas]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

first off.. in your link, the area described for "downtown Dallas" is 4.3 sq miles? we all know downtown Dallas is 1.4 sq miles. boosting downtown population by including in an additional 2.9 sq miles? weak... according to Wikipedia, downtown Dallas' population in 2010 was just over 6,000.

This is City-data, so we use City-data numbers. Wikipedia is a horrible source for information

FYI, all the downtowns mapped give a little more area than just the CBD. I'll go with City-data's boundaries over your made up boundaries all day evey day

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by RonnieinDallas

This is City-data, so we use City-data numbers. Wikipedia is a horrible source for information

FYI, all the downtowns mapped give a little more area than just the CBD. I'll go with City-data's boundaries over your made up boundaries all day evey day

as if city-data has never been wrong.. heh.

i noticed all downtowns mapped give a "little" more area than just the CBD, but downtown Houston only gets one square mile added to its CBD, while "downtown Dallas" gets THREE square miles added to its CBD..? clearly the information is skewed. downtown is the CBD. the REAL downtown Dallas' population is a bit over 6,000 people. downtown Houstons population is apparently a bit under 6,000 people (assuming your jail population counts were correct). practically identical, and with the 5,000 residential units being built/planned for downtown Houston, we should overtake downtown Dallas and downtown Austin in the next 3-5 years as the "best downtown in Texas".. or at least by your logic.