Is Texs in the Southwest or South? (El Paso, Brownsville: assess, alligator)

[doctorjef]

I wonder how many here think of Oklahoma as Southern vs Southwestern vs Midwestern? During my years in Texas I never knew quite how to classify Oklahoma, but in recent years since I've been away it seems to me that the culture there is overwhelmingly Southern. The attitudes of the establishment, the conservative politics and the majority religiosity seem typically mainstream Southern; this despite Oklahoma's Native American cultures, its preservation of prairie grasslands with some herds of American bison, etc.

IMO this has relevance for Texas, a State that in large measure shares the same culture as Oklahoma (to say otherwise is merely to be fooled by the narcissism of small differences and the football rivalry between two States in which that sport is a deeply embedded cultural institution).

A footnote to all of this is that some Native Americans in Okla were slaveholders and the territory had a lot of Southern sympathisers during the Civil War.

[TheOverdog]

Aside from the rodeos (which aren't all widespread anyway), you just described the entire South.

And all the way to California. I heard more country music and saw more boots in Portland that I hear or see in Dallas. And that 'Californians don't drive pickups' thing is completely false.

[doctorjef]

Well pickups are driven everywhere, including here in Delaware.

[rr2005]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

I hate to jump into the fray but I will. First, as somebody who drives across much of the entirety of southwest Texas and the panhandle on pretty much a weekly basis................(yesterday-Shamrock to Amarillo to Lubbock to Midland Odessa to Alpine) whatever west Texas is............it isn't east or even central Texas in terms of it's climate and in terms of how it looks. Economically it is somewhat different but still relies on oil.

However, Texas Reb is right in terms of the people who settled the are being southerners. However, the settlement was almost exclusively post bellum as opposed to antebellum. Moreover, much of the early settlement of eastern New Mexico and SE Arizona were the same type of people. So that is where the similarity to the southwest exists.

When you drive the area it has more similarity to the desert areas than it does to anything to the east of it which I would think places is it in the southwestern region in many ways, but I can't argue with Texas Reb and the others that the anglo inhabitants of these areas are from the southern culture. Meanwhile the southern culture that existed in the early days has essentially been swallowed up in Arizona and pretty much everywhere in New Mexico except for the southeast part of the state.

However, I will dispute the "cotton" aspect of the high planes as being significant because this all happened with the turn of the 20th century and the advent of irrigation. Cotton was beginning to be grown in Arizona and New Mexico at about the exact same time for the exact same reasons as it was grown on the Texas high planes.

And also, west Texas laughs at what the rest of the south calls "ranches".

I think this is spot-on. I'd also add that I think, culturally, the panhandle of Texas is similar to the plains regions of the Midwestern United States. They are both very much "farm" cultures.

[Mark Senior]

Ok, never sent a post on this topic. I was born in Tyler, never considered my self as Southwester, but instead Southern, I went to Robert E. Lee High School with the Rebels as the mascot. Move to Houston for some 25 years never considered Houston as in the Southwest whatsoever, actually could be a mid-western, or LA or Atlanta type city.

But on the other hand, my brother has always considered himself to be first a TEXAN, and wore boots a cowboy hat, western jeans. But his first job was in management in Flint, Michigan, there he was a TEXAN, he could not wait to get back to Texas, and for 40 plus years has been in Fort Worth as, a TEXAN. Has cut out the cowboy hat but I guess will be buried in boots, lol.

By the way didn't Midland Lee, doesn't Midland Lee have the Rebel as a mascot?

I consider most of the area west of I-35 to be Southwestern, whatever.

[Westerntraveler]

Originally Posted by Mark Senior

Ok, never sent a post on this topic. I was born in Tyler, never considered my self as Southwester, but instead Southern, I went to Robert E. Lee High School with the Rebels as the mascot. Move to Houston for some 25 years never considered Houston as in the Southwest whatsoever, actually could be a mid-western, or LA or Atlanta type city.

But on the other hand, my brother has always considered himself to be first a TEXAN, and wore boots a cowboy hat, western jeans. But his first job was in management in Flint, Michigan, there he was a TEXAN, he could not wait to get back to Texas, and for 40 plus years has been in Fort Worth as, a TEXAN. Has cut out the cowboy hat but I guess will be buried in boots, lol.

By the way didn't Midland Lee, doesn't Midland Lee have the Rebel as a mascot?

I consider most of the area west of I-35 to be Southwestern, whatever.

yes Mark, I graduated from Midland Lee and the rebels are the mascot...

[doctorjef]

Case closed!

[High_Plains_Retired]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

Case closed!

Wanna' bet?

[doctorjef]

Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired

Wanna' bet?

Of all the insoluble questions facing us...

[Scientific]

Originally Posted by Chimuelojones

I didn't think that my assessment of whether Texas was Westren or south would elicit such responses.

It seems the subject really...really matters to some. For all the history that links Texas to the south, there is as much history linking Texas to the west.

I just dont have the energy nor the inclanation to write a dissertation proving as such.

The persons that understood and agreed with my assessment is sufficient.

Its obvious the state is too big to be put in one box, but reading your posts I don't know why you would tell anyone who felt Southern or connected to the South, they're wrong because you have proof they should feel Southwestern or otherwise. Piney Woods, bayous, swamps, catfish, crawfish, alligators, cotton, sugarcane fields, and magnolias. All of them found in East Texas.

East Texas will always be the farthest Western extension of the South. You cant convince people who live there, they aren't Southern in some way. In the end its Texas, but they probably have more connections to LA or MS, than they would to Arizona.