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Maybe I better not post in this thread? But as long as you keep this thread going with Chicago in the topic. I do love Chicago to visit too. Been there this past June. I don't think it matters to anyone there to have Toronto claim a population over them. LA passed it a couple decades ago and really did not matter. Even Houston declares soon it will and DC by US standards of CSA. Because it becomes the Greater DC/Baltimore region overtaking all Chicagoland.
Maybe I better not post in this thread? But as long as you keep this thread going with Chicago in the topic. I do love Chicago to visit too. Been there this past June. I don't think it matters to anyone there to have Toronto claim a population over them. LA passed it a couple decades ago and really did not matter. Even Houston declares soon it will and DC by US standards of CSA. Because it becomes the Greater DC/Baltimore region overtaking all Chicagoland.
You're having some troubles here.
I'm saying in the USA, NYC always wins, against other US cities, even when there is friendly "sibling" rivalry among US cities.
Similarly in Canada, Toronto always wins, against other Canadian cities, even when there is friendly "sibling" rivalry among Canadian cities.
NYC is to the USA what Toronto is to Canada.
Montreal and Vancouver are great cities, among the best in the world, but in Canada they do not have as much media influence, high population, or large an economy as Toronto.
Most Canadians or Montrealers are not jealous of or hate Toronto. It's a very small minority in Quebec with separatist leanings who are furious that an anglo city like Toronto has taken the helm as Canada's largest and most important city.
.
Why would Quebec separatists be pissed at Toronto being the biggest city in *CANADA* when they want to separate from Canada and have new country called QUÉBEC which would obviously have Montreal as its unquestioned big city?
In my experience, most of the anti-Toronto sentiment and bitterness in Montreal comes from the city's anglophone minority. They're way more likely than the francophones to have lots of relatives and friends who moved from Montreal and Toronto and who boast to them about how great Toronto is.
If anything, francophones in Montreal and Quebec in general are quite indifferent to the rest of the country (including Toronto) and don't pay much attention to it or give it much thought.
Not saying this is a really good thing, but it is the way it is.
Without separatism, Canada would be defined more by both French and English, not English only with the exception of Quebec as it is now. Without separatism, Quebec would hold onto its culture and Canada would be more unique and known around the world with having French as its primary language (and English in the rest of Canada as well). Having a city with a different language as the nation's main city would have been much better. It's not like if Bill 101 didn't happen, people in Quebec would stop speaking French. Yes there would be more English, but the french language and Quebecois culture would always be there.
I don't think we can say anything conclusive about separatism's impact on francophone culture since they never carried the day, but as for Bill 101... without it Montreal and much of southwestern Quebec today would likely be a quite predominantly English-speaking area with a decent-sized but slowly eroding francophone minority.
Kind of like what the city of Ottawa is like today.
Montreal and Vancouver are great cities, among the best in the world, but in Canada they do not have as much media influence, high population, or large an economy as Toronto.
If Torontonians such as yourself want to claim to occupy the metropolis role for all Canadians, it would be advisable for them to learn a bit more about the "colonies" they want to reign over.
As it stands now, Toronto has very little impact as a metropolis in French-speaking Canada. That role is unquestionably played by Montreal. It's where the vast majority of domestic "big city" stuff comes from for us. Ask my kids and their friends what their "big city" is and they'll all say Montreal. Ask them to name other big influential cities and they might say NYC or Paris.
Toronto they are aware of but it's just another big city on the continent (registering about the same as Chicago) and does not have any "identification" relationship for them.
This would be relatively insignificant if French Canada were the size of Newfoundland but it so happens that it's about one quarter of the country.
This makes the "NYC in USA = Toronto in Canada" comparison inherently flawed.
If you truly were *our* metropolis, you'd know all of this already. I wouldn't have to tell you.
If Torontonians such as yourself want to claim to occupy the metropolis role for all Canadians, it would be advisable for them to learn a bit more about the "colonies" they want to reign over.
As it stands now, Toronto has very little impact as a metropolis in French-speaking Canada. That role is unquestionably played by Montreal. It's where the vast majority of domestic "big city" stuff comes from for us. Ask my kids and their friends what their "big city" is and they'll all say Montreal. Ask them to name other big influential cities and they might say NYC or Paris.
Toronto they are aware of but it's just another big city on the continent (registering about the same as Chicago) and does not have any "identification" relationship for them.
This would be relatively insignificant if French Canada were the size of Newfoundland but it so happens that it's about one quarter of the country.
This makes the "NYC in USA = Toronto in Canada" comparison inherently flawed.
If you truly were *our* metropolis, you'd know all of this already. I wouldn't have to tell you.
Maybe let's refrain from another "us" vs. "them" debate. We all live in one country, and there are inherent cultural differences but also deep interdependencies between our cities and provinces, ones we can see and many we can't really see but still affect our everyday lives in both provinces. Let's just leave it at that.
For e.g., how the Federal Government distributes the upcoming Canada Infrastructure Fund has every bit to do with Montreal and Toronto - any amount distributed to the GTA will have an inherent impact on infrastructure projects in Montreal in the months and years to come, including the high profile yet not-fully-funded REM project in Montreal.
For e.g., my close friend who's looking for chemical engineering positions in Montreal has to contemplate making the move to Toronto in the future because he doesn't get paid nearly enough in his field if he were to stay in Montreal, as many large biomedical research positions have long shifted away from Montreal region into other parts of Canada/U.S. It's interesting because my friend is originally from Quebec City, loves Quebec and Montreal to death, but is currently feverishly trying to improve his English to the point where he wants me to teach him to speak like a "native English speaker" (while I'm trying to persuade him to practice more French with me...). It doesn't mean he likes Toronto as a city, but more of a recognition that Toronto and Ontario offers more future economic opportunity and career advancement vs. staying put in Montreal.
One other thing I find among my friends in Montreal is that many have a rather outdated view of Toronto. Whenever I speak about Toronto, they say "bankers, consultants, lawyers", a pretty bleak view more remniscent of what Toronto was back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. When I told them that I originally moved to Toronto from Boston for an opportunity with a global tech startup in Toronto and that there is a thriving (and increasingly globally recognized) innovation and arts community in Toronto (think Queen West, Bloor Village, King East, Discovery District, MaRS - the largest government-sponsored startup community in Canada), many of Montreal friends find it hard to believe because it conflicts with their traditional view of what Toronto was. And I don't blame them for that because many of the above Toronto institutions are relatively new.
Last edited by bostonkid123; 10-26-2016 at 12:18 PM..
Without separatism, Canada would be defined more by both French and English, not English only with the exception of Quebec as it is now. Without separatism, Quebec would hold onto its culture and Canada would be more unique and known around the world with having French as its primary language (and English in the rest of Canada as well). Having a city with a different language as the nation's main city would have been much better. It's not like if Bill 101 didn't happen, people in Quebec would stop speaking French. Yes there would be more English, but the french language and Quebecois culture would always be there.
I fail to see the logic of how a city can become a country's premier metropolis of business, culture, art, and politics when it speaks a completely different language than that of the country it represents. On the contrary, it would have even exacerbated the French/English divide as every secondary city in Canada would easily view Montreal as "elitest French." The ROC already view Toronto with that kind of attitude, so imagine the backlash if Toronto chooses to make French or another language its official language of business. It would simply exacerbate the us vs. them, English vs. French, country vs. urban divide that already defines much of the relationship between Montreal/Toronto and the ROC.
Why would Quebec separatists be pissed at Toronto being the biggest city in *CANADA* when they want to separate from Canada and have new country called QUÉBEC which would obviously have Montreal as its unquestioned big city?
In my experience, most of the anti-Toronto sentiment and bitterness in Montreal comes from the city's anglophone minority. They're way more likely than the francophones to have lots of relatives and friends who moved from Montreal and Toronto and who boast to them about how great Toronto is.
If anything, francophones in Montreal and Quebec in general are quite indifferent to the rest of the country (including Toronto) and don't pay much attention to it or give it much thought.
Not saying this is a really good thing, but it is the way it is.
They are pissed that an Anglo city is the largest and most important city in the country (economically and culturally). This fuels their separatism (I.e. the English have the most influence).
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