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I will only accept it when all of the evidence is in, and a determination made by investigators. If they say he didn't do those things then fine. I have been known, however, to occasionally feel that investigators do not always do the best job they can. I am not into conspiracies, but I do expect this to be answered. We're not going go agree until investigation, not only of the accident itself, but of exactly what is wrong with Toyota's engine management system is revealed.
The police analysis determines the likely cause of unintended acceleration was due to wrong (car model) all-weather mats being in the vehicle, which allowed the gas pedal to become jambed. Also, the [incorrect] driver's mat may not have been attached (hooked) to the floorboard to secure the mat into proper position away from the gas pedal so it moved unimpeded.
The police analysis determines the likely cause of unintended acceleration was due to wrong (car model) all-weather mats being in the vehicle, which allowed the gas pedal to become jambed. Also, the [incorrect] driver's mat may not have been attached (hooked) to the floorboard to secure the mat into proper position away from the gas pedal so it moved unimpeded.
reading that makes me believe 100% it was a mat problem.. wow thanks for posting
The police analysis determines the likely cause of unintended acceleration was due to wrong (car model) all-weather mats being in the vehicle, which allowed the gas pedal to become jambed. Also, the [incorrect] driver's mat may not have been attached (hooked) to the floorboard to secure the mat into proper position away from the gas pedal so it moved unimpeded.
I've read it previously. Still not convinced. Toyota announced it was floor mats, the police said, "sounds like that, so let's put it in and close this case." Also, Police are not real crash investigators. Another reason, the cop and family had time to look down and see the pedal jammed and to pull the mat out of there. Remember, he was a trained officer. It's again illogical to assume that he didn't check for something like that. I'm very skeptical of that report's determination that it was the floormat.
Edit to add: I re-read the report and it seems to have been very well done. I read it before, but upon re-reading more jumps out at me. It does appear to be the floormat in this case.(however, see paragraph 1 & 2 on page 28) My impressions are that Toyota dealers regularly lie to their customers, they did not check the car before re-loaning it out, and the officer did indeed stand on the brakes, according to the report. They did not work. They worked 2 days prior, but not then. The dealer then, did not check the brakes before loaning it out again. Still does not answer other incidents, but I admit that this is a good report.
reading that makes me believe 100% it was a mat problem.. wow thanks for posting
That does seem to be the police's analysis, however their analysis does not explain why multiple witnesses saw the vehicle going very slow as though the driver was experiencing car trouble or ran out of gas. Also, if I recall correctly, one witness said he/she saw black smoke coming from the vehicle's exhaust when it was going real slow as though the engine was running overly rich, which would explain why the vehicle was going so slow because the engine would be running very rough (stalling, stumbling, bulky) and lose power. Then, 45 seconds or so after these witnesses passed the troubled vehicle these same witnesses saw it speeding by them with the emergency flashers on.
In my opinion it is highly unlikely that a jammed gas pedal on the all-weather floor mat would have caused the engine to lose power and run roughly. (This sort of thing only happened years ago when vehicle's did not have a computer to control engine parameters, the engine was cold, used carburetors, and had mechanical chokes.) The problem this vehicle experienced [early-on when it was going very slow on the highway] sounds to me like it was likely caused by a malfunctioning engine management computer system. What is confusing is what caused the engine to suddenly operate at wide-open-throttle thereafter. It could have been caused by the computer, which appears to have already been malfunctioning - causing the engine to run poorly and not be able to get up to highway speed. Or it could have been caused by the driver scooting the loose all-weather floor mat with his foot during the time he was feathering the gas pedal as he was trying to keep the balky engine from stalling-out completely. I'm assuming he either had the transmission in-gear when he was experiencing the engine running roughly, or when the engine started revving up smoothly he put the transmission in gear and drove off.
I can visualize the driver possibly mashing the gas pedal all the way to the floor once he drove off from the side of the highway (or from going so slowly) to test the engine's performance, or maybe flooring the gas pedal because he was irritated by what had happened. Nevertheless, from that point forward until the crash it sounds like the engine was operating at full throttle - not partial throttle. It's my view that even if the heavy driver's side all-weather floor mat was over top of the gas pedal the weight of the mat would not have been able to mash the gas pedal all the way to the floorboard. And, the pictures I have seen of a jambed gas pedal on an all-weather floor mat does not make the gas pedal go all the way to the floorboard either. That said, a partial deployment of the gas pedal is far different (from an acceleration standpoint) compared to a fully deployed wide-open-throttle condition.
It remains confusing (to me) whether the vehicle experienced one problem (engine computer or floor mat) or two problems either simultaneously or one after another.
There is no doubt the driver experienced a problem with the vehicle. But what remains just as big a mystery to me is why the experienced state trooper didn't gear-down or put the transmission into neutral, or apply the emergency brake. It makes no sense whatsoever that he failed to do this. (I asked my wife what she would do if the engine in her car all of a sudden went into a WOT. Without any hesitation she said - ("slam on the brakes, put it in neutral and turn off the key." Within one second of saying that she then said, "put on the parking brake.") And she's not a state trooper or a race car driver!
Lastly, the police report analysis said the brakes had indications of severe braking. I find it hard to believe that the brakes were damaged from when the prior driver experienced a similar problem two days before the state trooper crashed. It appears the first driver was able to bring the vehicle to a safe stop quickly, and experienced no problem with the brakes thereafter while he had the loaner vehicle. Tests have been performed on various cars (see previous post with chart) that clearly show any vehicle's brakes can easily stop the vehicle even under wide-open-throttle conditions. Modern four-wheel disk brakes are extremely reliable and extremly durable. It is my opinion that it would take well over a thousand feet of fully-applied hard braking before the brakes faded and became even partially ineffective. Automotive brakes are designed to handle extremely high heat while braking very heavy loads on extended downhill mountain inclines. That said, during the state trooper's initial hard braking attempt, when the vehicle was going well below the high crash speed, the brakes should have easily brought the vehicle to a complete stop. But, even if the brakes completely failed to slow the vehicle down even 1 mph - why didn't the state trooper slip the transmission into neutral or at least gear down? (If you read the entire police report you know that the state trooper's personal car had a sport transmission which included gear shift paddles on the steering. It wasn't like this man didn't know anything about gear shifting or how to gear down.) And, for whatever it's worth - the Lexus ES350 transmission can easily be geared down or slipped into neutral while under full torque acceleration load and at any speed.
Very confusing - concerning what took place with the vehicle and also why the experienced driver failed to take any action beyond [assumed] braking.
Last edited by highcotton; 02-09-2010 at 08:14 AM..
WASHINGTON -- Toyota Motor Corp. faces yet another possible federal investigation, this time of the electric power steering in 2009 and 2010 Corollas.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is considering a formal investigation of alleged defects reported in the compact car, agency spokeswoman Karen Aldana said.
Automotive News found that the Corolla has been the subject of 83 power-steering complaints since April 2008, 76 of which have reported that the vehicle unexpectedly veers to the left or right at 40 miles an hour and up.
Last edited by scirocco22; 02-09-2010 at 08:04 PM..
Reason: "snippet" only, please
Not only am I worried for all of the Toyota drivers, I am worried about the people around Toyota drivers on the highway.
The out-of-control sticky throttle is bound to cause plenty of rear-end accidents, multi-car accidents etc, etc...
The only real solution is to ban the sale of all new Toyotas indefinitely until they can prove that they've gotten this problem under control.
The problem is not a sticky throttle. And I seriously doubt the problem is related to the gas pedal...other than some isolated problems with misaligned floor mats. I believe the problem is with the onboard engine management computer.
Toyota doesnt make a single car in its respective category that is better than the competitors. There is always something bigger and better. Lets just leave it at that, mmmkay?
And I can say the same thing about GM and Ford.
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