Why is Tucson so Anti-Growth? (Phoenix, Pima: apartment, houses, construction)

[JohnGuterson]

I lived in Tucson for 5 years and I was struck by how scared they are of becoming Phoenix. It's like people don't recognize there is a happy medium.

The lack of an East/West Freeway or Expressway (no, Speedway does not count) is absurd. And they spent all that money on a streetcar that connects U of A to Downtown but does nothing for 99% of the city. Why not build a light rail system the way Phoenix did that actually gets people around the city? People there are so hostile to any kind of transportation or infrastructure project. It really hurts the economy and quality of life.

[grmi66]

That is the million dollar question. The anti-growth attitude was quaint back in the 80's when only half a million people lived here. Now we are a metro area of over a million residents.

When initially built in the late 80's, the Sunrise/Ina corridor was hoped to be another freeway, but the NIMBY's wouldn't allow it. So instead they half heartedly built a divided road and attempted to time the lights to move traffic to I-10 a bit faster. Now, almost 35 years later those same streets are basically the only way to get to Phoenix if you live in central or east Tucson.

Had to make a work trip out to the warehouses being built by Amazon and other logistics companies out on Kolb yesterday. It should be embarrassing to Pima County that they haven't built three lanes of freeway all the way out to State Route 83. The growth is coming and we should be prepared. The two lanes of traffic from downtown to the eastside were gridlocked in both directions by 3:30 PM.

[wildflowers27]

Not a resident yet but have driven there. The Broadway widening improvement project sounded promising until I looked at a map and saw it's a relatively small length of road. It's being widened to three lanes from Euclid to Country Club.

Broadway Improvement Project : Tucson, Arizona

[JohnGuterson]

Originally Posted by grmi66

That is the million dollar question. The anti-growth attitude was quaint back in the 80's when only half a million people lived here. Now we are a metro area of over a million residents.

When initially built in the late 80's, the Sunrise/Ina corridor was hoped to be another freeway, but the NIMBY's wouldn't allow it. So instead they half heartedly built a divided road and attempted to time the lights to move traffic to I-10 a bit faster. Now, almost 35 years later those same streets are basically the only way to get to Phoenix if you live in central or east Tucson.

Had to make a work trip out to the warehouses being built by Amazon and other logistics companies out on Kolb yesterday. It should be embarrassing to Pima County that they haven't built three lanes of freeway all the way out to State Route 83. The growth is coming and we should be prepared. The two lanes of traffic from downtown to the eastside were gridlocked in both directions by 3:30 PM.

Exactly. I get that people want to keep it quaint and that that is part of Tucson's charm, but you have to start thinking about how you're going to meet the needs of the growing population. Do people in Tucson care so much about "not becoming Phoenix" that they're going to refuse what is needed for a functional city that can meet the demands of growth? I used to know a couple of people who worked for the Tucson DOT - they were smart people who knew what needed to be done and what investments needed to be made, but they basically said that with the lack of public support and all the NIMBYs it's not going to happen anytime soon.

[steiconi]

I agree, not great traffic design here.

But...any time you improve traffic flow to an area, more people move there. The increased capacity is quickly overwhelmed. For instance, they widened I-80 between San Francisco and Sacramento; the farmland between the two is filing with houses, and traffic is getting worse. Solution? Widen the road again.

A real solution would be to decentralize business, so everybody isn't trying to get to the same place at the same time.

[Slater]

Over the years Davis-Monthan AFB has been threatened since it's pretty much been swallowed up by the city. There's been some unfortunate accidents in the past:

https://tucson.com/1978-jet-crashes-...055e2ec81.html

[steiconi]

And recently it was discovered that toxic firefighting chemicals from the AFB have leeched into the soil and are threatening Tucson's groundwater.

[Adamson865]

Originally Posted by JohnGuterson

Exactly. I get that people want to keep it quaint and that that is part of Tucson's charm, but you have to start thinking about how you're going to meet the needs of the growing population. Do people in Tucson care so much about "not becoming Phoenix" that they're going to refuse what is needed for a functional city that can meet the demands of growth? I used to know a couple of people who worked for the Tucson DOT - they were smart people who knew what needed to be done and what investments needed to be made, but they basically said that with the lack of public support and all the NIMBYs it's not going to happen anytime soon.

The central city looks like it's frozen in 1978 - but when the city "fixes" something, it's worse than before (the "fix" of E. Grant, for example... can't wait to see how they destroy Broadway with all their "fixes".

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by Adamson520

The central city looks like it's frozen in 1978 - but when the city "fixes" something, it's worse than before (the "fix" of E. Grant, for example... can't wait to see how they destroy Broadway with all their "fixes".

That is the truth.

Around the university, they created all kinds of pseudo- roundabouts. However, the asphalt is in such bad shape that it is little better than a gravel road. And there was "no money" to actually landscape the middle of the roundabouts. Most are so overgrown that you can't even see a pedestrian. I haven't seen streets this bad since leaving the City of Detroit.

And the trolley runs on its very limited route ... and even when they were collecting fares, very few of the students were stopping at the fare box to scan their cards.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by JohnGuterson

I lived in Tucson for 5 years and I was struck by how scared they are of becoming Phoenix. It's like people don't recognize there is a happy medium.

The lack of an East/West Freeway or Expressway (no, Speedway does not count) is absurd. And they spent all that money on a streetcar that connects U of A to Downtown but does nothing for 99% of the city. Why not build a light rail system the way Phoenix did that actually gets people around the city? People there are so hostile to any kind of transportation or infrastructure project. It really hurts the economy and quality of life.

Any time a rail line is built, no matter what length, it stimulates construction, lots of apartment construction from the U of A to Menlo Park, haven't you noticed? It doesn't seem to happen along bus routes, for whatever reason.

The fact that there isn't an East-West Freeway is a big asset to Tucson, it deters many from moving here, and if any city runs out of water first, it will be Phoenix rather than Tucson.

I say let Phoenix grow and grow and grow, and eventually, I'm dreaming, there'll be a high speed rail line between Tucson and Phoenix, and Phoenix can utilize Tucson as a suburb. if the train travels at 300 miles an hour, the trip would only be 30+ minutes.

Any President that speaks out against military spending would never get re-elected, Bernie Sanders deems it political suicide, the biggest unaudited swamp in DC, and part of that swamp are unnecessary military bases that should be shut down, like Monathan. But we all know the reaction: it would impact the economy of Tucson, forgetting that it would also be a great relief to taxpayers.

Las Vegas has Nellis and Creech, and there's Edwards Air Force Base, isn't that enough?