Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
While I agree with this - I think Thomas' actions frequently go beyond that. That's my issue with him.
I was just going to say the same. His actions go beyond his being gay and trying to cover it up or trying to compensate or whatever. I think it's more frustration over his ambition and not being able to be clever enough to figure out a way to rise above his station.
Look at how he got himself out of the infantry. That was cowardly but it got him a good opportunity to work at Downton Abby and the admiration of others believing he was wounded. But when he tried to do his black market trading he was hood winked pretty darn good. He gambled and lost which made him bitter.
The trouble is, he schemes and connives but always seems to fall short of the mark. I think it doesn't matter what his sexual orientation may be, he is just not clever enough to reach the goals he wants to achieve and is pretty spiteful towards others.
What kind of a job could Ethel have gotten that would have earned enough to raise a son on her own? She had only been trained as an under kitchen maid so she couldn't have been very highly skilled at taking care of a house. Anyway she was dismissed from Downton as soon as they found out about her situation. If she was turned out of Downton, it was pretty obvious she would not have been able to get a job elsewhere. The stigma of being an unwed mother would have kept her from getting work. Look at Mrs. Bird's attitude towards her and she was hired help herself.
Even if Ethel found work somewhere, who would watch her baby while she worked? Had she somehow found a way to keep her son he would have forever been known as an illegitimate child and would have not had the opportunities in life he could have being raised by his grandparents. Ethel knew that. That's why she made the sacrifice even though it was so difficult. Those were the times in which she lived.
The grandfather was a jerk but he was reflecting the times and he did seem to care about his grandson. And the grandmother was a good woman. It was painful, but I believe Ethel did the right thing under the cricumstances.
I realize that Cora's wishes could be over ridden by her husband, but I thought she might air aloud her own suspicions that something was wrong with Sybil, even before it became a crisis. Cora already gave birth 3 times and probably engaged in quiet whsipered stories about labor and birth with other ladies that she was close to. She would recognize if something was not quite right with Sybil. She could have said something to the Dowager who would also know which end is up. The other error was not having Matthew's mother around to monitor Sybil when they knew she was due or having her around when she went into labor before the doctors arrived. She was a trained nurse. Why wasn't she there? She would have recognized Sybil's problems.
In any event, Sybil was probably doomed no matter what. If she didn't die from eclampsia, the c-section probably would have killed her and the baby.
Did anyone ever see the British series or read the book The Citadel? It was based on a true story and depicts the incompetence of Harley Street doctors during this period.
I realize that Cora's wishes could be over ridden by her husband, but I thought she might air aloud her own suspicions that something was wrong with Sybil, even before it became a crisis. Cora already gave birth 3 times and probably engaged in quiet whispered stories about labor and birth with other ladies that she was close to. She would recognize if something was not quite right with Sybil. She could have said something to the Dowager who would also know which end is up. The other error was not having Matthew's mother around to monitor Sybil when they knew she was due or having her around when she went into labor before the doctors arrived. She was a trained nurse. Why wasn't she there? She would have recognized Sybil's problems.
In any event, Sybil was probably doomed no matter what. If she didn't die from eclampsia, the c-section probably would have killed her and the baby.
Did anyone ever see the British series or read the book The Citadel? It was based on a true story and depicts the incompetence of Harley Street doctors during this period.
I wonder if Cora could have done this. Remember when they were all at the dining table and the doctor started talking about albumin and protein in the urine? Lord Grantham hushed him saying the Dowager was at the table. She replied that she certainly had heard of such things before. But the very idea that LG wouldn't let them speak of pregnancy in front of her was certainly an indication of his not wanting to even think of the mechanics of pregnancy.
And I don't think it was a matter of it not being polite dinner conversation. I think it was just not something not to be discussed in front of ladies. How ironic is that!
With so many ladies who had given birth around and the country doctor who knew Sybil so well, one would think they all could have overridden LG. But no. He had the power. So he won out with his society doctor and paid a terrible price.
I think his character is there to portray in all aspects the crumbling of the old dynasty in which the power of title and inheritance was failing to rule Britain successfully. Matthew of the middle class was the new order. And the struggle was just beginning in every way.
I realize that Cora's wishes could be over ridden by her husband, but I thought she might air aloud her own suspicions that something was wrong with Sybil, even before it became a crisis. Cora already gave birth 3 times and probably engaged in quiet whsipered stories about labor and birth with other ladies that she was close to. She would recognize if something was not quite right with Sybil. She could have said something to the Dowager who would also know which end is up. The other error was not having Matthew's mother around to monitor Sybil when they knew she was due or having her around when she went into labor before the doctors arrived. She was a trained nurse. Why wasn't she there? She would have recognized Sybil's problems.
In any event, Sybil was probably doomed no matter what. If she didn't die from eclampsia, the c-section probably would have killed her and the baby.
Did anyone ever see the British series or read the book The Citadel? It was based on a true story and depicts the incompetence of Harley Street doctors during this period.
The first big discussion happens when she goes into labor, and the local doctor insists they need to take her to the hospital. So does Cora and Tom wishes it, but are overruled. Before that, it was discussed and of course, dismissed. It may be that it was already too late, thought that would take some research.
At the least they should have tried.
Just imagine today. First sign and she's off to the ER for a c-section. Much cheaper than a wrongful death law suit. Lawers can help some things.
There are few heros at Downton Abbey which is why it is delicious television. If the characters were all saintly we would be watching some other show. That is why it is called D-R-A-M-A.
Yes!! Saintly is so boring!! I wish Cora would act up a bit.
The first big discussion happens when she goes into labor, and the local doctor insists they need to take her to the hospital. So does Cora and Tom wishes it, but are overruled. Before that, it was discussed and of course, dismissed. It may be that it was already too late, thought that would take some research.
At the least they should have tried.
Just imagine today. First sign and she's off to the ER for a c-section. Much cheaper than a wrongful death law suit. Lawers can help some things.
I think the reason why Sir Phillip, the hoity-toity doctor, fought them on taking Sybil to the hospital was because the hospital would be the local doctor's turf; Sir Phillip couldn't bully the local doctor and the others at the hospital. So it was imperative to Sir Phillip to keep Sybil at the manor. And it was imperative to Sir Phillip to minimize the risks. It may always be an imperative to Sir Phillip to minimize the risks of childbirth.
Also, one of the effects of industrialization was marginalizing women. A hundred years earlier, and a midwife would have been called, rather than a doctor. A midwife would probably have been able to recognize that Sybil was in dire straits. Sybil might still have died, but my point is that the medical profession's attitude toward women, whether patient or otherwise, in 1920, was quite cavalier.
I just finished watching the rest of season 3. It came out on DVD yesterday. Wow!
Don't worry. I'm not going to spill the beans on anything that happens.
I will still watch every Sunday night because I'm one of those people who can watch and rewatch things over and over. I always find something new that I missed the first or second time.
If you have not seen all of Season 3 let me just tell you that it is fantastic. I love this show.
I think the reason why Sir Phillip, the hoity-toity doctor, fought them on taking Sybil to the hospital was because the hospital would be the local doctor's turf; Sir Phillip couldn't bully the local doctor and the others at the hospital. So it was imperative to Sir Phillip to keep Sybil at the manor. And it was imperative to Sir Phillip to minimize the risks. It may always be an imperative to Sir Phillip to minimize the risks of childbirth.
The reason why Sir Phillip fought taking Sybil to the hospital was because it was a a delicious dramatic device to explore male dominance and British aristocratic arrogance while setting up Sybil's death!
Sybil had to die because, a. look how many of us are talking about it, and b. once the "how-do-we-save-Downton-Abbey-because-there-is-no-heir-with-a-boatload-of-cash" plot line that has been going on for three seasons was resolved the writers needed something to keep driving the story line.
So ask yourselves who else's death would have served that purpose?
Lady Grantham, good of a episode or two but not much else.
Mama, get rid of Magie Smith, unthinkable.
Mary, no way who would Matthew and Edith fight with?
Edith, we already got the left standing at the alter escapade and we need Edith to explore the changing role of women in British society and to put yet another nail in the coffin of British aristocracy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
