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For the first two seasons of DA, Branson's "religion" appeared to be Irish nationalism, and he talked more like a Marxist than a Catholic. Now all of a sudden he says he's Catholic and wants the baby to be baptized as such! Likewise, Lord Grantham came across during that time as an "enlightened despot", and now he sounds like Archie Bunker when talking about Catholics!
I realize that religion is often part of one's "tribal" identity rather than something that is deeply understood and followed, and that was also true in the times in which DA is set. I wonder if that is the point Mr. Fellowes (who identifies himself as Catholic) is trying to make.
P.S. The abrupt shifts in character, of which the above two are examples, make my head spin!
I don't see it as abrupt, but more reacting to different circumstances.
Tom has changed. I'm sure he was raised Catholic, and now in this moment of hurt its still there. And if he's in a place where he is unique, he'd going to hang onto that. As far as the nationism, causes tend to amplify one part of a person. The Catholic beginnings never went away, but were there. But Tom can no longer go back to Ireland, and has a child to think about. Realistically, he can't be political and be safe and he has little Sybil to think about now.
And Sir Robert was speaking more metaphorically before his daughter married and especially before he is sheltering his son in law. And everything else is changing. He's had his world rocked off its foundations, and has to blow off steam. I think there is a little Archie in him too. Archie wasn't a bad man inside, but living up to his programming, and fighting tooth and nail against having to change. That pretty much describes Sir Robert too.
Not in agreement with the new Dr but he did have a point about the risk of disease from the hospital.
Also wondering why the old Dr didn't notice anything wrong sooner.
Given that she would die without it, the risk was not so important. His comment about how maybe she had 'thick ankles' when her doctor for years is worried is more true to his thinking. He is the royal expert, thus, he must be right.
And this is 1920. When it was already too late, at least at home where there are no supplies, there were mumbles about certain drugs. How commonly were they used? Did they test pregnant women during pregnancy for the protien? A friend of mine had toxemia, and she was watched and tested. She had her daughter early, and both recovered. Chances are if she'd lived then she and her daughter would have died.
Its interesting that when I heard the way the local doctor explained his concerns, especially that the risk it was eclamsia meant they had to try, I didn't assume he meant that it would necessarily save her. But in 1920, with the godlike mindset of the doctor, they may well have heard absolutes. And in their time, if they had delivered then, after she'd been in labor, it might have been a very tiny chance of saving her.
He sees that even if it was not ever a great chance, there was one IF they'd acted early enough.
As doctors even then knew the early on signs, I wonder if the tested women before it was going to be too late? What would they have done if a pregnancy would likely kill the mother but they could not save the child, as it was too young?
Well, it is kind of bull that a former prostitute quietly trying to pull her life back together is bringing all kinds of shame down on the family (as per Carson and Robert,) while Bates, after having been tried and sent to prison, will be welcomed back with open arms. Sure, he was cleared, but people will talk and all.
Well, Sir Robert supplied the lawyer and is out to right a wrong. He had a connection to Bates since before he came to Downton. Sir Robert is 'doing the good thing' and righting a wrong. It's personal. He rescues Tom because of Sybil, not because he wants to rescue Tom. He helps with Bates because it highly personal.
Mrs Crawley is trying to make up for things, I think. She is a crusader. She was working on this crusade before, when she found Ethel. The other side of the Crawley family may feel differently, but he is taking one more step. Saving women in their project is one thing, but I think she really wants to save Ethel. That matters more to her than any fuss over it the other side considers important.
I love this show and have been intrigued with this period soap since day one. I haven't read through this entire thread, but I guess the general sentiment is that there are many fans of this excellent show. I'm still sad that the character of Sybil died, but eager with what's going to happen with the rest of the cast.
Seems to me this show might be filling a niche needed in this country. I wish that quality historical period U.S. made shows could succeed here, but I guess it might be too hard for such shows to make it in today's U.S. TV business. Downton Abbey is fairly popular here on PBS, but if a somewhat similar U.S. period show came out on a commercial channel, wouldn't it be cancelled the first season because the ratings wouldn't be high enough? I think so, anyway! Before this, I wasn't really interested in British non-documentary shows...at least, what few that are available here on PBS. I do like some of the more educational documentaries available from Britain. So I'm just wondering if Downton Abbey appeals to me because of the historical aspect.
I was so glad to see those women not leave that house at the orders of Lord Grantham . He had no right to say anything about someone . And as far as the religion speak . Do you want to see a woman spin around like a top 100 times or more tell a baptist woman that her daughter is marrying a catholic . I married out of my faith the first time to a catholic first thing out of my aunts mouth is "Oh my god , you cant do that " I loved it again last night . It was perfect .
My mom's family was from Iowa. They went back to visit them from California frequently. This would have been about the same time frame as the show.
My mom was maybe five, and at home nobody was worried about Catholics. Mom didn't really know the difference. She befriended this little girl in the middling sized Iowa town, and they really clicked as friends. She brought the girl with her to the families house, and they were allowed cookies outside. Her friend understood. Mom didn't. Inside, she wanted to know why her friend couldn't come in and was told like it was just understood by everyone that ... but she's catholic....
Mom never forgot that. First exposure to out and out prejiduce she'd had. The two churches both existed in town, but their members did not socialize.
I think that is one reason I was raised with a very open view of religion.
I absolutely loved with Sir Robert was sent home alone. How rude to barge in to someone else's place and demand 'your women' leave. Maybe twenty years before, without the war and the *huge* change it brought, they would never have even gone. I think Mrs Crawley would still have taken in Ethel.
The Earl and Carsons' belief in sticking to standards is a copycat of Upstairs Downstairs (Hudson/LadyMarjory).
Absolutely. They would understand each other. I have the series set for U/D and have been watching them and its a wonderful comparison.
I think for Carson, the system is even more important and he'd going to hold on as long and hard as he can. The entire servant system is based on a caste system which connects the upper and lower. His defination of his world is based in it. For him to question it would be for him to question all the time and effort he put in to become the highest ranking of downstairs.
It would be like a long term, experienced business manager suddenly start asking why they do things the way they do and considering some tinkering. People seldom question the system when they've defined themselves by its rules.
Ovcatto, thank you. So the show is filmed all over. I visited England in 2000 and Yorkshire was one of the various places I went to. It was beautiful. The countryside was breathtaking. The small towns were reall nice. If I ever have the opportunity to go back, I would like to take a "Downton Abby" tour and visit all the locations where it is being filmed.
I think it's wonderful those old castles still remain. I saw so many in ruin but then they were much older. I don't know if Lord Grantham would approve of their modern usage but to have places like Highclere Castle still remain is remarkable.
It's interesting that Matthew's vision of making the estate pay for itself as a way of surviving is exactly why Highclere is still there. Virtually everything makes money. The families chef and his souie chef do catering as well and are the kitchen staff. Its incredable how it was brought back from the sad state it was in when the present Earl took over. The show about it before the first episode of season three was really fascinating. And for all the money made, most of it gets poured back in to maintain the place.
I think this is as much a theme as the macinations of staff and family as they react to it.
The devious Mrs O'Brien is using pretty boy James to spin a web for Thomas as part of her promised revenge for his lies about her earlier. Thomas seems absolutely clueless but he should be more suspicious. He is in for a downfall.
Ok, I watched the dvd's. So all I'll say is knowing how it ends the subtle scens and words which lead into it are just amazing. Watch it over when you know the end. Its an absolutely beautifully crafted story.
Seems to me this show might be filling a niche needed in this country. I wish that quality historical period U.S. made shows could succeed here, but I guess it might be too hard for such shows to make it in today's U.S. TV business. Downton Abbey is fairly popular here on PBS, but if a somewhat similar U.S. period show came out on a commercial channel, wouldn't it be cancelled the first season because the ratings wouldn't be high enough? I think so, anyway! Before this, I wasn't really interested in British non-documentary shows...at least, what few that are available here on PBS. I do like some of the more educational documentaries available from Britain. So I'm just wondering if Downton Abbey appeals to me because of the historical aspect.
This is, I think, why all the really good period shows are from BBC or other British productions.
Similarly, every post apoc show ends early since its not sufficently flashy.
And if a comercial network was to do a show about American gentry in that time period, there are LOTS of attitudes, toward certain groups, toward servants, toward social conventions, which would run into the PC wall. If you have to 'fix' it to make it 'acceptable', then its not historical period drama.
Real historical period drama is not about outside agendas but about portraying a time as it was and human beings as human beings. This necessarily means that some of it may not agree with our sensitivities. That Downton Abbey and other British shows are hits here *should* tell them that there is a real market, but its all up to cost and how many boxes of cerial it sells. Since period drama is expensive to produce this means it has to sell more than your brain wiped reality show.
The prequal about Robert and Cora's marriage arraingement should be very interesting.
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Likewise, Lord Grantham came across during that time as an "enlightened despot", and now he sounds like Archie Bunker when talking about Catholics!
