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I'll say this generally: The time jump TWD did last season is still so ham handed and sloppy. It makes no sense that the Alexandrian's posture vis-a-vis Negan had not changed one bit in those 6 years--that’s a long time to be in prison. The time jump was only used to age Judith it seems, and she’s not that great of a character. Sans an older Judith, it seems everything was exactly has it was before the the time jump and it’s only 6 years into the future because the narrative said so. I think a 1 year jump would have been more appropriate if the writers didn’t want to show Michonne pregnant.
I'll say this generally: The time jump TWD did last season is still so ham handed and sloppy. It makes no sense that the Alexandrian's posture vis-a-vis Negan had not changed one bit in those 6 years--that’s a long time to be in prison. The time jump was only used to age Judith it seems, and she’s not that great of a character. Sans an older Judith, it seems everything was exactly has it was before the the time jump and it’s only 6 years into the future because the narrative said so.
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Originally Posted by jim9251
Probably one of the worst episodes of the show.
It was clearly meant to segue into a new role for Negan, and develop some changes in the other characters. I guess the writers can't please everybody.
Clearly and predictably they are grooming the Negan character to be this gruff sympathetic hero now. Some of the viewers will accept that but, still, how are they going to address that only a few seasons ago he was a psychotic murderer that took unique pleasure in bashing heads in with a spiked bat and cooking peoples face as a disciplinary measure? Yes years have passed in the show but you don't make Charles Manson into your new hero, he spent 40 years in jail before taking his dirt nap to hell, would you have released him to take care of your children after 30 years? I mean, as far as I know he hasn't even addressed and apologized for his past misdeeds in the show as in "you know, I bashed your friends brains in and laughed when his eyeball popped out, i'm sorry that was really evil of me." He actually sounds now in the show like the same arrogant a-hole that he did back then rather than repentant in any way. If they don't address that leap of logic then it will be hard to accept as a viewer.
Clearly and predictably they are grooming the Negan character to be this gruff sympathetic hero now. Some of the viewers will accept that but, still, how are they going to address that only a few seasons ago he was a psychotic murderer that took unique pleasure in bashing heads in with a spiked bat and cooking peoples face as a disciplinary measure? Yes years have passed in the show but you don't make Charles Manson into your new hero, he spent 40 years in jail before taking his dirt nap to hell, would you have released him to take care of your children after 30 years? I mean, as far as I know he hasn't even addressed and apologized for his past misdeeds in the show as in "you know, I bashed your friends brains in and laughed when his eyeball popped out, i'm sorry that was really evil of me." He actually sounds now in the show like the same arrogant a-hole that he did back then rather than repentant in any way. If they don't address that leap of logic then it will be hard to accept as a viewer.
One way would be to do backstories on all of Negan's people that were killed by Rick and gang. The guys on the motorcycles, the people they killed in their sleep, etc. As watchers, we obviously feel more sorry for the characters we know and love.
I'm not saying Negan's way of running his community was better, at all, but even Negan admitted last night that he now sees that this community actually is better and is working.
One way would be to do backstories on all of Negan's people that were killed by Rick and gang. The guys on the motorcycles, the people they killed in their sleep, etc. As watchers, we obviously feel more sorry for the characters we know and love.
I'm not saying Negan's way of running his community was better, at all, but even Negan admitted last night that he now sees that this community actually is better and is working.
I don't even consider the past characters in regards to Negan, or who Rick and gang killed in the preemptive attack as it was a war clearly started by Negan, it's more about story continuity logic. They built a Charlie Manson/Adolph Hitler character and now they want us to accept him as a hero. I see absolutely no moral equivalency here between rick and negan, no more then we can justify the actions that Charlie Manson did for his twisted objectives on cleansing society. Nor do I think the writers intended there to be any equivalency. Rick and gang didn't achieve sadistic pleasure from killing or brutalizing, nor did they rule over an authoritative regime that ruled by way of subjecation and brutality. Negan did.
I missed the part where Negan admitted last night that this society is better. That's a good start. There indeed needs to be a back story with Negan and an episode devoted to some kind of catharsis, some kind of more vocal realization from him before I can accept him as this new hero. Let's see if the writers cook something up.
I don't believe Negan was psychotic or took sadistic pleasure in killing. As he said many times, he believed people were a resource, and he only killed them to protect and perpetuate the Saviors' way of life. At least some of the workers idolized him. Remember them thanking and blessing him for his protection when the Sanctuary was attacked by the walker horde? He had a fundamental disagreement with Rick over the best way to govern. In Rick's final episode, Rick said he'd never asked people to follow him and Daryl told him that he should have, implying Rick should have been a stronger leader.
I can easily see Negan becoming the hero to save the communities from the Whisperers. I don't think he needs a catharsis...we've already seen a lot of personality changes in his interactions with Judith, Aaron, and Lydia in the last few episodes.
I do not hate the Negan character any longer. A good way for Negan to redeem himself in the eyes of ALL would be... if a key player or two are killed off in the finale by the horrid Whisperers leaders, then he kills both Alpha and her monstrous man, thereby saving the day. He can then become a key player in Alexandria or Hilltop. I do not want his character killed off. I went from "Kill this stinking bastard" a few seasons ago, to "Don't let them kill Negan."
I don't even consider the past characters in regards to Negan, or who Rick and gang killed in the preemptive attack as it was a war clearly started by Negan, it's more about story continuity logic. They built a Charlie Manson/Adolph Hitler character and now they want us to accept him as a hero. I see absolutely no moral equivalency here between rick and negan, no more then we can justify the actions that Charlie Manson did for his twisted objectives on cleansing society. Nor do I think the writers intended there to be any equivalency. Rick and gang didn't achieve sadistic pleasure from killing or brutalizing, nor did they rule over an authoritative regime that ruled by way of subjecation and brutality. Negan did.
I missed the part where Negan admitted last night that this society is better. That's a good start. There indeed needs to be a back story with Negan and an episode devoted to some kind of catharsis, some kind of more vocal realization from him before I can accept him as this new hero. Let's see if the writers cook something up.
Rick STARTED the war with Neegan when he took supplies from Hilltop in return for becoming a mercenary army to divorce them from the Saviors.
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