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Rick STARTED the war with Neegan when he took supplies from Hilltop in return for becoming a mercenary army to divorce them from the Saviors.
That would be incorrect.
Our (and Rick's groups) first view of the saviors is when they try to capture it's 3 escaped members including Dwight. They open fire at Daryl and Sasha during the encounter. Yes, the saviors essentially start the war there, with a minor skirmish. But maybe the conflict can be settled?
Our second view is when the Saviors ambush Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham on the road. Here it gets serious - insisting that everything they own belongs to them, and actually insist on killing one of their members. No debate here - war is declared by the Saviors. Daryl quick settles the request with an RPG.
The third view is when Negan sends a mole to kill the Hilltop leader. It's established that Negan also killed two of the hilltop for a offering being "light". Rick realizes these first two encounters are a prelude to a bigger and more violent encounter where they will be held hostage and required to submit to Negan.
Those three factors contribute to Rick deciding the make a preemptive strike, although "prememptive" is only in spirit. The savior have already targeted his crew twice. His only mistake is assuming they are a pushover based on the prior encounters.
Our (and Rick's groups) first view of the saviors is when they try to capture it's 3 escaped members including Dwight. They open fire at Daryl and Sasha during the encounter. Yes, the saviors essentially start the war there, with a minor skirmish. But maybe the conflict can be settled?
Our second view is when the Saviors ambush Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham on the road. Here it gets serious - insisting that everything they own belongs to them, and actually insist on killing one of their members. No debate here - war is declared by the Saviors. Daryl quick settles the request with an RPG.
The third view is when Negan sends a mole to kill the Hilltop leader. It's established that Negan also killed two of the hilltop for a offering being "light". Rick realizes these first two encounters are a prelude to a bigger and more violent encounter where they will be held hostage and required to submit to Negan.
Those three factors contribute to Rick deciding the make a preemptive strike, although "prememptive" is only in spirit. The savior have already targeted his crew twice. His only mistake is assuming they are a pushover based on the prior encounters.
So, if Rick's group would have assimilated into the Hilltop community and their way of life, there would be no war. Rick's insistence on being independent and not joining another collective got him targeted.
Our second view is when the Saviors ambush Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham on the road. Here it gets serious - insisting that everything they own belongs to them, and actually insist on killing one of their members. No debate here - war is declared by the Saviors. Daryl quick settles the request with an RPG.
Very one sided, pro-Rick view, which is what the writers wanted us to focus on at that time.
The writers could've given us backgrounds on those 10-12 men on the Saviors motorcycle security team (how about a few well loved veterans, police officers, pizza delivery guy) that were protecting that border, dealing with a new group that was trying to pass, being aggressive, wouldn't give up their weapons, wouldn't just turn around, then killed all of them.
Very one sided, pro-Rick view, which is what the writers wanted us to focus on at that time.
The writers could've given us backgrounds on those 10-12 men on the Saviors motorcycle security team (how about a few well loved veterans, police officers, pizza delivery guy) that were protecting that border, dealing with a new group that was trying to pass, being aggressive, wouldn't give up their weapons, wouldn't just turn around, then killed all of them.
Who started the war?
I'm confused here - Did you read my previous post? Were you guys watching a different show then me?
There was no protecting border and the only intention in the Saviors dealing with the new group was to subjugate them.
Rick's group was not aggressive in that second encounter until they found out this groups motivation, which was clearly stated - robbery, extortion, and murder.
The script writers intended for this group to be the new bad group for that season, but even in hindsight I don't see any moral ambiguity here even in the context of a fictional zombie Apocalypse any more then I consider the real-life historical need to destroy the government of Nazi Germany. The fact that people do, troubles me.
This from Wiki:
"Under their charismatic authoritarian leader Negan, they enacted a brutal regime to subjugate any and all communities they came across in the area surrounding Washington, D.C. through murder and brutality to coerce survivors (such as those at the Hilltop) to provide a steady stream of food and other goods. They also had a reputation of being ruthless and uncompromising."
This article also assumes (maybe from the comics?) that many of it's members are former criminals due to the lack of remorse in killing, and the sadistic behavior portrayed by some.
I'm confused here - Did you read my previous post? Were you guys watching a different show then me?
There was no protecting border and the only intention in the Saviors dealing with the new group was to subjugate them.
Rick's group was not aggressive in that second encounter until they found out this groups motivation, which was clearly stated - robbery, extortion, and murder.
The script writers intended for this group to be the new bad group for that season, but even in hindsight I don't see any moral ambiguity here even in the context of a fictional zombie Apocalypse any more then I consider the real-life historical need to destroy the government of Nazi Germany. The fact that people do, troubles me.
This from Wiki:
"Under their charismatic authoritarian leader Negan, they enacted a brutal regime to subjugate any and all communities they came across in the area surrounding Washington, D.C. through murder and brutality to coerce survivors (such as those at the Hilltop) to provide a steady stream of food and other goods. They also had a reputation of being ruthless and uncompromising."
This article also assumes (maybe from the comics?) that many of it's members are former criminals due to the lack of remorse in killing, and the sadistic behavior portrayed by some.
.... and in return, those "farmers and weaklings" were given protection from ZOMBIES and well as other groups. It's not like it was a one way relationship.
.... and in return, those "farmers and weaklings" were given protection from ZOMBIES and well as other groups. It's not like it was a one way relationship.
There was no offer or attempt that I remember, at least in the TV show, to give any type of protection to these subjugated communities. It was strictly "pay up or we will kill your members".
There was no offer or attempt that I remember, at least in the TV show, to give any type of protection to these subjugated communities. It was strictly "pay up or we will kill your members".
"Come on Rick. Let me save you. We're good at it" - Neegan
All those outposts were built to fight off advancing herds of walkers and patrolling for them. In return, the peasants were required to feed and supply them.
For sure.
The night time episodes are always duds. They look like the show runners need to scrimp on money & film entirely or mostly in the dark so they don't have to spend $$ on the set.
I'm still stuck on the fact that while Carol and Negan know of each other, they still haven't had any interactions on the show and haven't come face to face yet. That should hopefully be changing this season.
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