Is brexit the beginning of the end of the UK? (national, small)
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Already guessed the corner you come from MnM258 and in your rabbit on about democracy and things like the House of Lords or Monarchy you are in cloud of cuckoo land. The Lords can be involved in discussion on issues but it is the Commons who finally decides things. The House above it does have a number of thinking people and generally does a good position. And you finally come out to indicate you are a republican but history shows that it is not always a complete package of your claim on democracy that where a monarchy goes a fantastic change comes re that word "democracy."
And by the way clever clogs can I also remind you of a democratic decision on first past the post. This country voted in a referendum on whether we should have proportional representation or first past the post and Gt Britain VOTE FOR FIRST PAST THE POST! Thought you might be old enough to remember that as not that long ago.......
ps That groan who is now Liberal Democrat leader has indicated she would keep voting in referendums to stay in the EU. Democratic?
Declaring independence from Big Brussels will no more be the end of Britain than declaring independence from Britain was the end of America. One thing is clear though. If Britain doesn’t manage to escape Big Brussels’ orbit now it never will.
Well without wanting to deviate too much mathlete I would just passingly say that the USA for all it's pride in existing has a lot that detracts from the basic starting principles! Anyway you have said something positive about our departure. We have been let down by politicians just as America although our democracy is wider based than two giant money parties. has and the new leader of the Liberal Democrat Party ere (unfortunately a fellow Scot!) has come out with nonsense as she would if there was a second referendum still want yet another if that one failed.
Even if there was initial depreciation on leaving they can be overcome and Europe rather stupidly forgets that the leading light Germany is slipping down economically and they along with other parts of Europe will be affected by us leaving. We can then world trade and make progress whist the Euro lot continue to stagger and bump going nowhere. The politicians here who wax on about people not knowing what Bexit means are a bunch of hypocrites because they lost the referendum and insult leavers as not being bright. Ignorant and silly and rol on the end of October.
Have you seen what British towns and cities have turned into over recent years? (no of course you haven't because you don't even live here!), you should have a word with ED about it. I don't care what damage is done - the GREATEST damage would be the death of DEMOCRACY! Besides its NOT your business, but MOST OF ALL the EU is NOT DEMOCRATIC I will FIGHT for Democracy the way people of these islands had to fight for Democracy in the past. VOTE WAS MADE, VOTERS VOTED TO LEAVE, LEAVE WE MUST.
Yes I have in places and little to do with EU. A lot to do with neo liberal economic policies that have been in place sense the late seventies.
I have stated with repetition it is this agenda of tax cuts, deregulation along with privatisation and hostility to unions that has placed large segments of Britain in the possession it is.
None of this will be fixed with a Brexit nor will immigration cease. The process that has been inflicted on the British people is NOT DEMORCRATIC thus people must decide wisely the sort of nation they want.
Once out be too late to blame EU for numerous failings largely self imposed.
Well without wanting to deviate too much mathlete I would just passingly say that the USA for all it's pride in existing has a lot that detracts from the basic starting principles! Anyway you have said something positive about our departure. We have been let down by politicians just as America although our democracy is wider based than two giant money parties. has and the new leader of the Liberal Democrat Party ere (unfortunately a fellow Scot!) has come out with nonsense as she would if there was a second referendum still want yet another if that one failed.
Even if there was initial depreciation on leaving they can be overcome and Europe rather stupidly forgets that the leading light Germany is slipping down economically and they along with other parts of Europe will be affected by us leaving. We can then world trade and make progress whist the Euro lot continue to stagger and bump going nowhere. The politicians here who wax on about people not knowing what Bexit means are a bunch of hypocrites because they lost the referendum and insult leavers as not being bright. Ignorant and silly and rol on the end of October.
Thank goodness for the Lib Democrats for at least offering a choice. So a crash out of Europe is of no concern to you? What is slipping is pretty much everywhere, but you don't include America in your 'slip ups' a country that has witnessed living standards decline for many decades of its blue collar class .
No I am not in straightforward terms concerned about "crashing out." The Liberal democrats being the ones in the front line of staying in have a weird corner based on what I said about their leader. Years ago when that lot had a youngish leader like her he came out speaking about how they were going to zoom up and to stand by for them forming a government! He is in the house of Lords for years and this young woman is coming out with the same stuff as he dd. She has got carried away and as I also pointed out would just continually vote in a referendum after a referendum for staying in. As for America for years I have been very direct about America where the word democracy is well just a word. Two parties controlled by big money, over 40 million unemployed over 2 million in jail and people on death row for not just weeks or months but years - one recently for 13 years. Gun daft and over 250 mas shooting in the year but typical. All that nonsense about the right to bear arms re the Constitution. Why bother having a million in the armed forces. Watched an elderly American on the BBC who was in jail for 43 years but not just in there but confined to a cell himself for that time. One word answers the country - ugh.
We do have a wider democracy and all our parliamentary parties are represented on the standing committee of parliament no matter who is in power. The LibDems will never form a government and a waste of time to me as it happens. They are a middle class hoo-ha lot!
I am not running scared of another vote. I recognise the massive damage such a vote would cause in a campaign. There are a lot of angry people out there. I believe a second vote would be very close. Maybe as close as the one in 2016. What you going to do if it's real close, and goes to remain? As you demanded a second vote, then surely, you would agree a third one? Best out of three?
Leave is in the driving seat now. As BNW said, time is running out for forcing a General Election. If Boris plays his cards right, we could be out of the EU before a General Election. We'll talk about EU membership then eh?........
Desperate days for whining remainers.
This talk of potentionally multiple referendums is past ridiculous. There is a very good logical argument for a second referendum. Whatever the result there would be no argument for more because no one could claim they didn't know what it entailed. As of now they can and do claim that.
Why can't you Brexiteers accept that much has happened in the past three years, like the Irish Border question which was never even mentioned during the referendum campaign, and which completely negates the claims from the 'just get on with it' brigade that 'they knew what they were voting for.'
Actually that needs qualifying - they obviously knew the reason they voted to leave, but that doesn't mean they knew the implications of leaving. They didn't. No one did.
I wonder how many brexiteers on this forum have a threatened job in the motor industry for example.
I'm guessing none!
It looks like you will get what you want. Many will get what they don't want.
I'll tell you this - when I look round the current Cabinet of right wing brexiteers I know in my gut I have nothing in common with them or what they believe in.
Their self serving ideology will come back to bite them.
This talk of potentionally multiple referendums is past ridiculous. There is a very good logical argument for a second referendum. Whatever the result there would be no argument for more because no one could claim they didn't know what it entailed. As of now they can and do claim that.
Why can't you Brexiteers accept that much has happened in the past three years, like the Irish Border question which was never even mentioned during the referendum campaign, and which completely negates the claims from the 'just get on with it' brigade that 'they knew what they were voting for.'
Actually that needs qualifying - they obviously knew the reason they voted to leave, but that doesn't mean they knew the implications of leaving. They didn't. No one did.
I wonder how many brexiteers on this forum have a threatened job in the motor industry for example.
I'm guessing none!
It looks like you will get what you want. Many will get what they don't want.
I'll tell you this - when I look round the current Cabinet of right wing brexiteers I know in my gut I have nothing in common with them or what they believe in.
Their self serving ideology will come back to bite them.
Well, as a remainer, of course a second referendum is what you want. Plus if it goes close for remain, that would be good enough for you. You really think a very close second vote to remain, would ensure all leavers quietly accept it? No they wouldn't. The anger would just drag on forever. A very relieved EU would then consider it time to go back to business as usual.
The immigration to this small island would continue, and the population continue to grow. Large parts of the country left to rot, same as now. Eventually, the native population of this country, becoming a minority. Largest minority........ I guess we should be grateful for that huh?
Nothing matters more to me than the future of the English people on this island of ours. I don't give a damn for the Scots, like they don't seem to give a damn for me. Same with the Irish. Leo Varadkar isn't laughing anymore, like he did a few months ago is he? The penny has dropped, as to how serious this situation is. Too bad Leo, we saw your true colours. Keep sucking up to the EU.
The Scots want another vote for independence? Give it to them. I hope this time they find the guts to vote leave. Ireland? They must be due to start killing each other again any time now. Why should I care? They can't live in peace, let them get on with it, and this time, we need to keep out of it. Enough good English men died there during their so called 'troubles.'
It's time England started worrying about the English people. We need to leave the EU, and end the unlimited immigration from Europe. Plus any Eastern European criminals still here after we leave the EU, throw them out. It's time for a new direction.
Last edited by English Dave; 08-05-2019 at 06:36 AM..
This talk of potentionally multiple referendums is past ridiculous. There is a very good logical argument for a second referendum. Whatever the result there would be no argument for more because no one could claim they didn't know what it entailed. As of now they can and do claim that.
Why can't you Brexiteers accept that much has happened in the past three years, like the Irish Border question which was never even mentioned during the referendum campaign, and which completely negates the claims from the 'just get on with it' brigade that 'they knew what they were voting for.'
Actually that needs qualifying - they obviously knew the reason they voted to leave, but that doesn't mean they knew the implications of leaving. They didn't. No one did.
I wonder how many brexiteers on this forum have a threatened job in the motor industry for example.
I'm guessing none!
It looks like you will get what you want. Many will get what they don't want.
I'll tell you this - when I look round the current Cabinet of right wing brexiteers I know in my gut I have nothing in common with them or what they believe in.
Their self serving ideology will come back to bite them.
A second referendum is now out of the question, even an election before we leave is now looking impossible.
The truth is, MP's would have had to have done something efire the recess but they didn't, and when they return on the 3rd September they are now limited in what they can do.
Even if they did vote no confidence in the Government, Johnson would just organise an election for November by which time we would have left. In terms of an interim Government, as long as Johnson decides to fight an election there can be no interim Government.
The problem with Brexit is due to the backstop which Parliament is not ging to accept who ever is in power and the EU won't negotiate despite Barnier saying in the past that there will be no hard border whatever and that he was willing to look at technology to get around the issue.
The Irish have had a strained relationship with the EU themselves and this might be further strained by EU defence and tax plans under new EU President Ursula von der Leyen.
Parliament will never accept the backstop. It's not going to happen under any circumstances. If it came into play, we would just be the EU's play thing.
If we remained in the EU, the immigration from Europe would never end. The closer integration would continue, and ever more national power exported to the EU.
Like Boris says, it's now or never. This is our one and only chance to get out from under the EU boot.
Whatever the price is, it's worth paying it.
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