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If businesses are falling down like skittles, maybe they need support. Just sayin... the inconvenient truth is that if there are fewer businesses, there are fewer employment opportunities. Thus lower taxes being collected. It's great to have 4 week vacation, and £7.70/£8.21 an hour, if you have a job, but it's no good to you if you don't.
That's why it is important to stop brexit if at all possible.
I'd rather vote for a man with integrity than a liar. And please spare me the apocalyptic predictions of a Labour government because I've heard it all. Mostly from the right wing press. Another bunch of liars.
Kwasi Karteng hopelessly trying to defend the Tory claim this morning that the Labour spending plans involve 1.2 Trillion pounds.
He steadfastly and embarrassingly failed to produce the corresponding figure for the Tories.
As I've said before the only thing the Tories are really good at is 'talking the talk.'
After that you can't trust them an inch. They stand for wealth, are supported by wealth and will never be a party for the people. If they win in December it will be on a Brexit ticket. Without that they wouldn't have a hope. My hope is that the people of this country are not completely blind and see through it.
Just to remind everyone unemployment is at its lowest point in nearly 45 years, wages are rising faster than inflation and the UK remains the No 1 destination in the EU for inward foreign investment.
Labour will take a shellacking at the polls in December because Labour voters don't trust Corbyn and believe Boris will deliver the Brexit that they voted for.
The LibDems will also hammer Labour over its mixed messages on Brexit - the latest being that the next leader after Corbyn should job-share with one leader for the metropolitan luvvies and the other for the Northern constituencies.
The ultimate problem is that the internet has acted like a giant centrifuge separating ideologies from one another with such efficiency that there’s no common ground any longer. Without common ground how is it possible we’ll ever be able to work together again? Societies will exhaust themselves in endless rounds of cold warfare in which we talk past one another about such issues as Brexit without ever achieving anything approaching practical consensus.
Industrialization and democratization created unprecedented common ground after centuries of internecine bloodletting but all that has been undone by the advent of instant mass communications.
And the polarization is only going to get worse when our fantasies of ultimate victory over one another eventually run aground on the shoals of reality.
That's why it is important to stop brexit if at all possible.
The businesses that are falling down (minus a few famous names) are SMEs. They're mostly unaffected by international trade because they service the UK internal market.
I appreciate much of what you say Dave but this issue has become very tribal with little or no trust between the players. Believe it or not though, it's not the answer to our problems. It may well make them worse.
A vote for Johnson, (why do people call him 'Boris', we never said 'vote for 'David' or vote for 'Theresa?') is a vote for another term of tory government with all that goes with it.
We'll see more & more support for business (in spite of 'em going down like nine pins in the high street)
Workers' rights will be endangered once we're out of the EU in the pointless pursuit of the competition myth (efficiency savings, restructuring etc, etc).
Homes & the Homeless together with climate change, will remain on the back burner. Attempts to broker a deal with the US - which won't come close to the trade we have with the EU - will be conducted via Johnson & Trump.
But of course, the NHS is off the table. Both of these individuals say so. That's alright then.
How in God's name can anyone vote for these types of people?
Words fail me, except to say the words 'be careful what you vote for' were never more appropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff956
I'd rather vote for a man with integrity than a liar. And please spare me the apocalyptic predictions of a Labour government because I've heard it all. Mostly from the right wing press. Another bunch of liars.
Kwasi Karteng hopelessly trying to defend the Tory claim this morning that the Labour spending plans involve 1.2 Trillion pounds.
He steadfastly and embarrassingly failed to produce the corresponding figure for the Tories.
As I've said before the only thing the Tories are really good at is 'talking the talk.'
After that you can't trust them an inch. They stand for wealth, are supported by wealth and will never be a party for the people. If they win in December it will be on a Brexit ticket. Without that they wouldn't have a hope. My hope is that the people of this country are not completely blind and see through it.
I will never argue with you geoff. I recognise a man who wants to put his faith in Jeremy Corbyn. A lot of what he says it true about growing unfairness in this country. The railways are a shambles, and should never have left public ownership. Many of his other concerns I totally agree with.
But, I just don't trust him geoff. He is an againster of decades past. There isn't a terrorist organisation that hasn't had his support, from the Palestinians to the IRA. He would have been just fine in Harold Wilson's cabinet, but he isn't suitable, in mine, and many other people's opinion to be Prime Minister. He, and his lackeys have undermined local Labour party organisations, and have brought fear of deselection to those MPs not following his party line.
The Labour party in Parliament, is full of people like Emily Thornberry, who sneer at ordinary working class Labour supporters. Many in the Labour Party have never had a real job in their lives. Local politics, then national politics later. Sure, there are many Tories just the same, but I expect more from Labour members of Parliament.
Corbyn keeps an idiot like Diane Abbott real close. Why is that? He would give her the job of Home Secretary in a Labour government. She would be a disaster. I am fed up of hearing from Labour people like her, how we need to do more for so called refugees. My country has been flooded as it is, with so called refugees, and I am sick to the back teeth of it.
My country has been changed beyond recognition in only 50 years. All political parties are guilty of this. Tony Blair opened the floodgates to eastern Europeans, and we were told our noses would be rubbed in diversity and multiculturalism, and that has happened.
The population of this small island contlnues to grow, without enough housing for those already here. The EU don't give a damn, and something has to be done about it. The only way to regain control of our borders is to leave the EU. There is no other way geoff. We have to think of our young people, and reach beyond our own selfish needs.
My interests lie in the status quo. I have to think outside of that, and try to help the young. Many have been brainwashed by the media into thinking constant immigration is a good thing. I don't agree. It has to be brought down to more manageable amounts. In my opinion, there is nothing more important for the future of this country.
We have enough problems with other cultures here from previous waves of immigration. We can't allow it to continue, or we will be overwhelmed, and a minority in our own country. That way will lead to civil war geoff. We have to think of those coming after us when we are gone. They will never forgive us if we allow things to carry on as they are.
Nigel Farage is coming under great pressure to back down, on his promise to field Brexit candidates all over the country. I hope Nigel can be convinced to do so. We have to give Boris Johnson every chance to win, with a good majority.
Nigel Farage will go down in history as the man who got us the Brexit vote. We owe everything to him, and are grateful. But now, he has to find the humility to stand back, and not stand in the way of Johnson, and victory.
Corbyn has to be stopped in his tracks. Once defeated, he will be removed as Labour leader. Then, the party can try and find it's way back to being the party of the working class people. We need a strong Labour party, but Corbyn needs to be consigned to history.
After a seven day "self imposed" exile I come back and find there are still peeps on this thread prattling on about promises party leaders made to respect the vote of the electorate*in the ref. and complaining they have not lived up to their promise.
40+ months in, and they still haven't figured out that the ref vote was advisory only, (otherwise why promise to uphold it?), that Parliament not the people is sovereign, that the party leaders don't control parliament.
It's not as if there isn't a history of politicians breaking promises....
Nine Slippery Brexit Pledges......Say it ain't so....
I will never argue with you geoff. I recognise a man who wants to put his faith in Jeremy Corbyn. A lot of what he says it true about growing unfairness in this country. The railways are a shambles, and should never have left public ownership. Many of his other concerns I totally agree with.
But, I just don't trust him geoff. He is an againster of decades past. There isn't a terrorist organisation that hasn't had his support, from the Palestinians to the IRA. He would have been just fine in Harold Wilson's cabinet, but he isn't suitable, in mine, and many other people's opinion to be Prime Minister. He, and his lackeys have undermined local Labour party organisations, and have brought fear of deselection to those MPs not following his party line.
The Labour party in Parliament, is full of people like Emily Thornberry, who sneer at ordinary working class Labour supporters. Many in the Labour Party have never had a real job in their lives. Local politics, then national politics later. Sure, there are many Tories just the same, but I expect more from Labour members of Parliament.
Corbyn keeps an idiot like Diane Abbott real close. Why is that? He would give her the job of Home Secretary in a Labour government. She would be a disaster. I am fed up of hearing from Labour people like her, how we need to do more for so called refugees. My country has been flooded as it is, with so called refugees, and I am sick to the back teeth of it.
My country has been changed beyond recognition in only 50 years. All political parties are guilty of this. Tony Blair opened the floodgates to eastern Europeans, and we were told our noses would be rubbed in diversity and multiculturalism, and that has happened.
The population of this small island contlnues to grow, without enough housing for those already here. The EU don't give a damn, and something has to be done about it. The only way to regain control of our borders is to leave the EU. There is no other way geoff. We have to think of our young people, and reach beyond our own selfish needs.
My interests lie in the status quo. I have to think outside of that, and try to help the young. Many have been brainwashed by the media into thinking constant immigration is a good thing. I don't agree. It has to be brought down to more manageable amounts. In my opinion, there is nothing more important for the future of this country.
We have enough problems with other cultures here from previous waves of immigration. We can't allow it to continue, or we will be overwhelmed, and a minority in our own country. That way will lead to civil war geoff. We have to think of those coming after us when we are gone. They will never forgive us if we allow things to carry on as they are.
Yes Dave we probably agree on many things and it's true to say we have to deal with the people we're lumbered with. I'm not a great fan of Corbyn but I firmly believe he is a man of integrity. He takes shed loads of flack from all sides and often chooses to ignore it which I think is a mistake. There are times when you have to make yourself heard, otherwise people believe the flack. That's his mistake.
He also knows how to conduct himself, unlike the court jester the other side of the dispatch box but that doesn't count for much these days.
I couldn't vote for the Tories if my life depended on it. I detest them.
I understand that to you it's the route to Brexit, but I somehow doubt it will end well for anyone.
Sadly, even if Johnson wins and gets his deal through the 'end' won't even be in sight, and the rancour will continue as before. Nothing is worth tearing the country apart for, and certainly not Brexit.
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