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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glokta
This is my basic problem with Brexit. Great benefits turns to not as bad as it could have been.
Another 5-10 years of austerity to pay for it and the benefits are that we are only in abit worse position then we were before..... Great.
I can't tell you what will be the result concerning manufacturing. I can tell you that manufacturing has changed, drastically. Unskilled manufacturing in the US is mostly offshored. Expect the same if it hasn't already gone, there. Most new manufacturing is skilled and automated. People need to be trained. That's jobs for trainers and jobs for workers. That has zip to do with Brexit. It is what it is.
I used the BMW plant near me as an example. It didn't start out as the largest BMW plant in the world. It's been expanded. The parts plants that have come have come from the EU. The US has no trade agreement with the EU.
Don't think for one second that your politicians don't know about the setup in this area. After one of Trump's public fits, within the year, Merkel told the other politicians at the meeting what a fool he was because he apparently was unaware that the largest BMW plant in the world was in his country. Then they all had a good laugh. It was on the news here. I would expect it was shown everywhere else.
I would say this to you Gungnir regarding the election and your stuff about Scots independence.
Yes how many MP's a party gets is important routinely however in a referendum a different situation differs. Obviously it is how the whole vote feels on an issue and that is it so may I remind you that in actual votes the people in Scotland who voted for Unionist parties totalled 55% and ahead of the Nationalists so that counts for definitive decision. So in a Referendum that would be it. The last Referendum was also when the SNP had the majority of MP's and it was meant to be for a generation even in such a circumstance so the same applies now an far too near the last one held. in the actual Scots Parliament the SNP government had to depend on that wee group of weird Green Party people to get forceful things through.
When the Nationalist newspaper was started it got over 50,000 sold daily but it is now between 8 - 9,000 so there are conflicts. If we were daft enough on another referendum in suich a short period (conflicting on the previous one's decision) I reckon we would still be in the UK. Too many folk up here are carried away with daft notions and playing bagpipes. This part of GB has three quarters of it's economy tied to GB but the emotional get carried away with modern Brigadoons. \very immature considering the strong middle class amongst much of the SNP lot.
That's nice, and all, but it's the same argument people use about Brexit leavers. They're filled with unreasonable expectations and opinions on the importance of the UK.
I don't think it has any bearing, unless you subscribe to authoritarianism, do you? People make decisions for reasons both rational and illogical, that doesnt mean we should discount illogical decisions based on our interpretations or our perspectives. However, that's the whole purpose of the second point, that people are responsible for their decisions and need to live with the consequences.
I'll be straight up, I think even with Brexit Scotland is better off in the union than out. It's not going to get into the EU as it stands, Spain will veto (because of Catalonia), the ECB can't permit Scotlands entry into the Euro with its GDP/Spending ratio, and it needs to join the Euro, or at least peg its currency to it, a currency, it does not have. Then there's creating a hard border Berwick to Gretna and paying for customs and armed forces (and maybe police too) that are funded by the UK.
That doesnt however want me to prevent Scotland voting on it, or even leaving if the choose to. Not my place to say they can't.
That's nice, and all, but it's the same argument people use about Brexit leavers. They're filled with unreasonable expectations and opinions on the importance of the UK.
I don't think it has any bearing, unless you subscribe to authoritarianism, do you? People make decisions for reasons both rational and illogical, that doesnt mean we should discount illogical decisions based on our interpretations or our perspectives. However, that's the whole purpose of the second point, that people are responsible for their decisions and need to live with the consequences.
I'll be straight up, I think even with Brexit Scotland is better off in the union than out. It's not going to get into the EU as it stands, Spain will veto (because of Catalonia), the ECB can't permit Scotlands entry into the Euro with its GDP/Spending ratio, and it needs to join the Euro, or at least peg its currency to it, a currency, it does not have. Then there's creating a hard border Berwick to Gretna and paying for customs and armed forces (and maybe police too) that are funded by the UK.
That doesnt however want me to prevent Scotland voting on it, or even leaving if the choose to. Not my place to say they can't.
These were exactly the reasons why at the last referendum the Scots voted to remain in the Union - the economic arguments against independence were simply too daunting.
The original SNP calculations were based on oil at well over $100 a barrel and did not include provisions for when North Sea oil and gas ran out or became too expensive to extract.
There were also no convincing arguments as to how Scotland would fund itself through the international money markets without the Bank of England as guarantor.
There was also considerable opposition from Scots who had seen how poor a fist the SNP has made of governing even with substantial funding from the Barnett Formula.
Ironically there was more support in England for Scottish independence than there was in Scotland.
You just have your head in the sand on this like most leavers. It isn't just about immigration, it's about supply chains, tariffs, bureaucracy, non-tariff barriers, regulatory standards. You don't have to believe me, ask the people who actually run businesses in those sectors I mentioned, people who are very familiar with how they operate and the challenges they face, leavers seem to think that 'John down the pub' knows more than they do but that's just a sign of the propaganda working I think.
Rupert Murdoch and the other right wing press moguls drip feed for years that you shouldn't listen to people who know what they are talking about, experts in their fields, after all they are the educated 'elites' who are not to be trusted, listen to him and shadowy friends instead even though they know very little about the fields they are commenting on, and the people all too often lap it up because manipulation like that does actually work, that's why they spend so much effort on it, and they are skilled enough to make people think they are coming to their own conclusions rather than following the agenda that has been set for them by the populist media and their backers.
businesses will adapt to the new circumstances, many have already said its not new rules they are afraid of its the not knowing what is happening, well now they now, Brexit IS happening, we are leaving the EU on 31st January 2020, and a new law is being added to the Withdrawal Bill so that there are no more extensions, the EU will have to agree a trading agreement by the end of 2020, or face WTO terms, you know the same terms we trade with all non EU countries.
These were exactly the reasons why at the last referendum the Scots voted to remain in the Union - the economic arguments against independence were simply too daunting.
The original SNP calculations were based on oil at well over $100 a barrel and did not include provisions for when North Sea oil and gas ran out or became too expensive to extract.
There were also no convincing arguments as to how Scotland would fund itself through the international money markets without the Bank of England as guarantor.
There was also considerable opposition from Scots who had seen how poor a fist the SNP has made of governing even with substantial funding from the Barnett Formula.
Ironically there was more support in England for Scottish independence than there was in Scotland.
Sure they are the same reasons, nothing changed since the last referendum 4-5 years ago at least on the Scottish side. That said I support their right to try.
I don't think anyone in England could care less if the Scots remained or left, I don't even know what the Scots produce to sell apart from Whisky and Aberdeen Angus meat, I have not seen anything in the shops which is labelled "made in Scotland".
I don't think anyone in England could care less if the Scots remained or left, I don't even know what the Scots produce to sell apart from Whisky and Aberdeen Angus meat, I have not seen anything in the shops which is labelled "made in Scotland".
Kilts. Except for the ones made in China of course. Then there's bagpipes. Give me a minute, and I'll think of something else......
Sure they are the same reasons, nothing changed since the last referendum 4-5 years ago at least on the Scottish side. That said I support their right to try.
Funnily enough the same considerations are at play with a united Ireland.
Ireland is not keen on the idea of picking up the £10billlion annual shortfall that NI currently gets from London.
And Northern Ireland voters are rather keen on free healthcare and the huge number of public sector jobs that £10billion buys.
Interestingly in NI both Nationalist and Unionists lost vote share in the GE in favour of the Alliance party and Sinn Fein has been draining support south of the border.
For all its faults quite a lot of people seem to like the idea of the Union.
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