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Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 4 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,188 posts, read 13,477,157 times
Reputation: 19518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDentist
The same applies to the UK, it will also get relatively weaker.
True, blocks are slow and cumbersome, but they also carry a lot of weight when striking a deal, which benefits the union's member states. I would say that the UK is at a disadvantage when making a trade deal with the US and China for example, because both are so much larger than the UK.
True, every country has the right to veto within the union, but very rarely a country makes use of this right. I don't recall the UK ever used its veto in their ~ 40 years membership? And also, the member states have been very unified in dealing with the UK-EU trade agreement. That the UK could 'devide and conquer' was a Brexiteer argument on why it would be easy to make a favourable deal for the UK, but all of the EU was very unified.
The UK has a decent deal with the EU.
As for Veto's, the EU Mercosur trade deal with South America has seen veto after veto. Austria objected first of all and then France. Indeed the French will veto any deal that threatens competition in relation to the Common Agricultural Policy, and as a result there will never be truly free trade between the US and EU.
The Canada deal isn't even been ratified by most EU countries, and it doesn't even involve reductions tariffs in relation to agricultural products.
The UK has now dropped EU sanctions imposed on the US due to a spat involving Boeing, and as a result duty on Scotch Whisky and some other UK goods is set to be reduced by the US.
The UK government has secured trade agreements with 63 countries plus the EU, worth an estimated worth £885bn, in less than two years.
The UK has signed free trade deals with 7 of the 11 countries that make up the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) and will be looking to join CPTPP later this year.
The CPTPP free trade deal currently represents over 495 million people and 13.5% of global GDP, and includes countries such as Australia, Canada and New Zealand, whilst the US was poised to join under the Obama administration, and Biden may now sign up the US to CPTPP.
As well as other deals there will also be closer diplomatic, trade and security ties through CANZUK, whilst the UK will remain committed to NATO and five eyes.
The UK was warned by French President General de Gaulle not to join the EU and he prevented Britain from joining twice.
De Gaulle stated that; The UK “is maritime; it is bound by trade, by its markets, to the most diverse array of countries – and often the most far-flung”, he went on. “It has a lot of industry and commerce but very little agriculture – and its habits and traditions are very different.”
De Gaulle also warned UK would have to ditch its “special relationship” with the US if it was serious about joining what was then the Common Market.
If Britain were to rejoin we would have to give up our currency, our legal system and our national sovereignty, and would have to pay more in terms of the Common Agricultural Policy than we did previously, as Thatcher had managed to negotiate a rebate.
It makes no sense for the UK to rejoin the EU, we have left and now need to make new deals and alliances.
Last edited by Brave New World; 01-11-2021 at 03:30 AM..
The same applies to the UK, it will also get relatively weaker.
True, blocks are slow and cumbersome, but they also carry a lot of weight when striking a deal, which benefits the union's member states. I would say that the UK is at a disadvantage when making a trade deal with the US and China for example, because both are so much larger than the UK.
True, every country has the right to veto within the union, but very rarely a country makes use of this right. I don't recall the UK ever used its veto in their ~ 40 years membership? And also, the member states have been very unified in dealing with the UK-EU trade agreement. That the UK could 'devide and conquer' was a Brexiteer argument on why it would be easy to make a favourable deal for the UK, but all of the EU was very unified.
Well in trade negotiations various countries have torpedoed what looked like a done deal many times. Vetoing legislation is a different subject. Example CETA, proposed 2004, signed 2016, provisionally applied 2017, still not in force. UK/Canada under 12 months (because the UK couldn't negotiate until 1st Jan 2020). No the members weren't very unified, Macron has burned any goodwill he had and then some, he's got a political capital deficit both in Brussels and in France because of his posturing. Maybe you weren't paying attention.
Further you're suggesting staying on the sinking ship, fully aware its sinking, because? You might drown slower? Or you can bail out possibly survive and get on the next passing ship thats not sinking. Weird rationale to be honest.
Well in trade negotiations various countries have torpedoed what looked like a done deal many times. Vetoing legislation is a different subject. Example CETA, proposed 2004, signed 2016, provisionally applied 2017, still not in force. UK/Canada under 12 months (because the UK couldn't negotiate until 1st Jan 2020). No the members weren't very unified, Macron has burned any goodwill he had and then some, he's got a political capital deficit both in Brussels and in France because of his posturing. Maybe you weren't paying attention.
Further you're suggesting staying on the sinking ship, fully aware its sinking, because? You might drown slower? Or you can bail out possibly survive and get on the next passing ship thats not sinking. Weird rationale to be honest.
1) I think you are over exaggerating about Macron.
2) Yeah, they were unified. Maybe you didn't pay attention when Boris in December 2020 tried to circumvent the commission at the very last minute by calling Merkel and Macron directly? He was politely told that he needs to talk to Barnier. The divide and conquer tactic failed in December like it did on all other occasiosions since the Brexit vote.
3) I don't think I am suggesting anything? You say that EU will get relative weaker compared to SE Asia, I say the same applies to the UK. Under any circumstances Brexit will leave a negative impact on GDP as British business' adjust to Brexit, so the UK got some catching up to do compared to EU.
Bit of a stretch to say the EU is showing signs of reduced importance, maybe that’s because you believe in Brexit and the UKs importance or relevance ?
Europe will continue to get stronger and more United, it has to given the world we are living in now, the US is declining and China is rising, South America is also becoming more United, blocks will trade with blocks, it just isn’t worth the time or effort to negotiate individual trade deals with one off countries.
Nope, Brexit remains daft.
Well said bro... but I think we are wasting our time here.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 4 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,188 posts, read 13,477,157 times
Reputation: 19518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
Well said bro... but I think we are wasting our time here.
I think you are, as the UK has just left and is looking to make new trade deal such as Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership as well as new alliances such as CANZUK. The UK has already made lots of trade deals including one with the EU and there are no plans to rejoin the EU.
I think you are, as the UK has just left and is looking to make new trade deal such as Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership as well as new alliances such as CANZUK. The UK has already made lots of trade deals including one with the EU and there are no plans to rejoin the EU.
The UK has lost £39.8 billion worth of EU trade this month too.
I think you are, as the UK has just left and is looking to make new trade deal such as Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership as well as new alliances such as CANZUK. The UK has already made lots of trade deals including one with the EU and there are no plans to rejoin the EU.
CANZUK is theoretical at this point, with a certain small group promoting the idea. That’s all it seems to be at this point - an idea without any specific practical political backing or discussion by the public in general. I’d not even heard of CANZUK until I came across the term in one of these threads and googled it.
The UK has lost £39.8 billion worth of EU trade this month too.
I see that in the 12 months to Oct. 2020 total UK trade was off by $200B+ or 12.5%
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