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I have trouble seeing how that could be true. Many suburbs are difficult to get around. For me, even when I was college-age, everytime I came home from college I felt a drastic reduction in independence (mobility-wise).
That is your experience. It is not universal. And suburban NYC is different than suburban Denver. It's pretty easy to get to downtown Denver from any suburb via bus. One can also take the bus to Eldora Ski area. My kids did this a lot.
Are we just supposed to accept as fact that urban kids have more "freedom, independence, and daily experiences" than suburban kids?
It certainly would be helpful if you did.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
Suppose the average score on the 5th grade reading test (just picking stuff out of the air here) at "School A" is 95%. This does not mean that every child scores 95%, or that any one child will score 95%. It does not mean that if you send your child to School A, s/he will score 95% in reading.
But it would be used to determine the number of students doing well in that subject. Are you saying cumulative statistics are irrelevant? Aren't poor test scores a big knock on urban schools?
That is your experience. It is not universal. And suburban NYC is different than suburban Denver. It's pretty easy to get to downtown Denver from any suburb via bus. One can also take the bus to Eldora Ski area. My kids did this a lot.
There are more places like NEI describes than like you describe. NEI's experience has been echoed by others here, myself included. Your continual reference of your own does not make it any more prevalent.
"Buses run in the suburbs of Denver, so that means they do in all others except for anywhere NEI and Hands grew up."
I have trouble seeing how that could be true. Many suburbs are difficult to get around. For me, even when I was college-age, everytime I came home from college I felt a drastic reduction in independence (mobility-wise).
Me too NEI, but don't you know that all suburbs have frequent bus service that wisk children away to anywhere they please? This is America, after all. We are well known for our frequent and robust suburban transit service worldwide! I overheard some Germans saying how jealous they were of its ubiquity.
Me too NEI, but don't you know that all suburbs have frequent bus service that wisk children away to anywhere they please? This is America, after all. We are well known for our frequent and robust suburban transit service worldwide! I overheard some Germans saying how jealous they were of its ubiquity.
I can feel the sarcasm from all the way from New England.
Yeah , when the Germans admire your "efficiency" then you know that you've done something special.. LOL
There are more places like NEI describes than like you describe. NEI's experience has been echoed by others here, myself included. Your continual reference of your own does not make it any more prevalent.
"Buses run in the suburbs of Denver, so that means they do in all others except for anywhere NEI and Hands grew up."
I've asked this before, but what urban transit system does NOT run to the burbs? Pittsburgh's PAT does. Even Omaha's Ometro does. In fact, off the top of my head, here are some other transit systems that I know service their whole metro area: SEPTA-Philadelphia; DC Metro; Chicago Metra, BART-San Francisco. Now, IIRC, someone once posted about SF's system and there are several systems extant there. The Long Island Railroad services Long Island.
While I was at dinner, I was thinking about this. I recall my brother and his friends taking the bus to Pittsburgh back in high school to "hang out" on school holidays. The bus station was probably 2 miles from our house. I don't know just how they got there. Maybe someone's parent took them on their way to work. Maybe they walked. But somehow, THEY GOT THERE!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-15-2012 at 07:11 PM..
I've asked this before, but what urban transit system does NOT run to the burbs? Pittsburgh's PAT does. Even Omaha's Ometro does.
You can dig up my response, which I felt was sufficient. The vast majority of Baltimore suburbs are not served in any meaningful way, for instance. Additionally If you have to walk for 30 minutes or more to get to a bus that runs every 90 minutes during business hours monday to friday, it might as well not exist. Same with one-way commuter service. A line on a system map does not indicate a bus route's frequency, or utility.
I'm not having this argument again. 95/100 people will agree that mobility without a car is easier in an urban environment. It isn't even worth discussing such a basic truth.
But it would be used to determine the number of students doing well in that subject. Are you saying cumulative statistics are irrelevant? Aren't poor test scores a big knock on urban schools?
@Hands: Not gonna happen!
@ nei-Explaining the state testing system for students is difficult, and it's made even more difficult b/c it's different in every state. Poor test scores are, as you say, a big knock on urban schools. IMO, it's a deal breaker for many parents. I think the cities need to figure out how to shape up their schools. There is no easy solution. One thing that might help is enforcement of mandatory attendance. I used to teach a teen parenting program in the Champaign schools, and the attendance records of those kids was abysmal.
You can dig up my response, which I felt was sufficient. The vast majority of Baltimore suburbs are not served in any meaningful way, for instance. Additionally If you have to walk for 30 minutes or more to get to a bus that runs every 90 minutes during business hours monday to friday, it might as well not exist. Same with one-way commuter service. A line on a system map does not indicate a bus route's frequency, or utility.
I'm not having this argument again. 95/100 people will agree that mobility without a car is easier in an urban environment. It isn't even worth discussing such a basic truth.
Did you read the rest of my post or just fire off an answer after reading the first sentence? I agree it's easier in an "urban environment". I would include at least the close-in suburbs of most cities in that definition. It's certainly not impossible to get around from the suburbs w/o a car. The other thing is, a lot of suburban kids do have access to cars.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-15-2012 at 07:29 PM..
Did you read the rest of my post or just fire off an answer after reading the first sentence? I agree it's easier in an "urban environment". I would include at least the close-in suburbs of most cities in that definition. It's certainly not impossible to get around from the suburbs w/o a car.
I had thought you had something different that an urban environment isn't any easier (urban kids are no more independent than suburban kids).
There are some (maybe more than half) suburbs that are close to impossible to get around without a car. Re: which metros don't have transit in their burbs?
All do, but many times useful transit in suburbs is limited into downtown, getting around to local shops or even a friend's house in another neighborhood could be difficult. And the transit doesn't cover all suburbs —*many residents do not live within any reasonable walking distance of a transit stop, park and rides are required.
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The other thing is, a lot of suburban kids do have access to cars.
Well I didn't. But either way, access to cars won't happen to almost adulthood, 17 maybe 16 at times. I'd argue most teenagers shouldn't really need to drive, anyway. Cars are expensive, I remember for a lot of my classmates, the money they earned from jobs went mostly to supporting their cars.
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LOL
