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And after we get to the boat in Long Beach we have this car which we have to get rid of or spend 25 a day to keep. And getting from Downtown LA to Long Beach can easily run 1 and 1/2 hours. Actually getting from LAX to the Long Beach Freeway can easily run an hour. That is what 7 miles?
There's currently light rail from downtown LA to Long Beach. Scheduled time is an hour, maybe a bit less. For spots not covered by train in most of the region nearby there is bus service. Maybe not the best, but you're not stranded. If you're visiting someone (or say going to a convention, etc.) that might be preferrable to renting or driving.
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Originally Posted by cisco kid
It's 24 miles from LA to Long Beach, a 30 minute drive in good traffic not two hours. I think you're exaggerating. But since good traffic is rare in the LA area I'd say about an hour drive. I doubt it ever takes two hours to drive 24 miles, even in LA. Unless there's an accident or something blocking the freeway.
Or try NYC. Roughly 24 miles from Kew Gardens Hills, Queens to Newark. Current driving time: 48 minutes. Likely at rush hour (Friday evening should be "best") at least 1.5 hours, probably at some time pushing 2 hours. Some other combination involving the BQE or LIE (Cross Bronx Expressway) might also work.
There's currently light rail from downtown LA to Long Beach. Scheduled time is an hour, maybe a bit less. For spots not covered by train in most of the region nearby there is bus service. Maybe not the best, but you're not stranded. If you're visiting someone (or say going to a convention, etc.) that might be preferrable to renting or driving.
We are carrying luggage and gear. That system is hopeless for such a situation. That is commuter stuff not inter city travelers with baggage. You think we can find Hertz at the end of the trolley line?
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Or try NYC. Roughly 24 miles from Kew Gardens Hills, Queens to Newark. Current driving time: 48 minutes. Likely at rush hour (Friday evening should be "best") at least 1.5 hours, probably at some time pushing 2 hours. Some other combination involving the BQE or LIE (Cross Bronx Expressway) might also work.
There is any number of times in my life where I have seen the LIE run at well less than 5 miles an hour. If you ever used it regularly you would know. We came cross country LA to NYC in about 1/3 more time than it took to get from Kennedy to mid island.
We are carrying luggage and gear. That system is hopeless for such a situation. That is commuter stuff not inter city travelers with baggage. You think we can find Hertz at the end of the trolley line?
Plenty of people of travel with just a bag or two. I've used local rail and bus for luggage before.
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There is any number of times in my life where I have seen the LIE run at well less than 5 miles an hour. If you ever used it regularly you would know. We came cross country LA to NYC in about 1/3 more time than it took to get from Kennedy to mid island.
I've driven on the LIE many times, but mostly have avoided traffic jams.
Plenty of people of travel with just a bag or two. I've used local rail and bus for luggage before.
Sure you have. And when I was traveling much of the western world I generally had a worst a carry on.
But we are going to spend a week on our boat at Catalina. So we have not just short range clothing but boat gear. Normally we pretty well fill a large sedan. You suggest we buy new or rent when we get there?
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I've driven on the LIE many times, but mostly have avoided traffic jams.
And for at least the last 30 years I have driven the LIE only because I was forced to so I could not pick the time.
We are carrying luggage and gear. That system is hopeless for such a situation. That is commuter stuff not inter city travelers with baggage. You think we can find Hertz at the end of the trolley line?
There is any number of times in my life where I have seen the LIE run at well less than 5 miles an hour. If you ever used it regularly you would know. We came cross country LA to NYC in about 1/3 more time than it took to get from Kennedy to mid island.
Why are you so concerned about something that will never happen? We're talking about LA to SF not LA to Las Vegas. No one is going to be spending 40 to 50 billion dollars for HSR just to shuttle tourists 300 miles between LA and LV. The customer base and population density isn't there to support it so it makes absolutely zero economic sense. It's a dumb fantasy just like the hyperloop. Building from LA to SF makes sense because LA and SF are two major metropolitan areas, with many other big metropolitan stops along the way such as as San Jose and the silicon valley. The west coast has the population density to support it as does the northeast. The customer base is there. Las Vegas does not.
Why are you so concerned about something that will never happen? We're talking about LA to SF not LA to Las Vegas. No one is going to be spending 40 to 50 billion dollars for HSR just to shuttle tourists 300 miles between LA and LV. The customer base and population density isn't there to support it so it makes absolutely zero economic sense. It's a dumb fantasy just like the hyperloop. Building from LA to SF makes sense because LA and SF are two major metropolitan areas, with many other big metropolitan stops along the way such as as San Jose and the silicon valley. The west coast has the population density to support it as does the northeast. The customer base is there. Las Vegas does not.
You know I do not believe I have ever seen anyone as fixed on a single issue as you. All indications continue to indicate that HSR is a concept whose time has come and gone. But you continue to beat the drum hoping I guess that history will run backwards long enough to implement something HSRish.
It is trying to implement a solution that is too costly and performs at too low a level to be practical in this time and place.
We speculate on some other concepts that might provide a better outcome.
But the likely outcome is that the automobile air system will remain intact. And, if any HSR is actually built, they will prove to be hopeless economic white elephants.
You know I do not believe I have ever seen anyone as fixed on a single issue as you. All indications continue to indicate that HSR is a concept whose time has come and gone. But you continue to beat the drum hoping I guess that history will run backwards long enough to implement something HSRish.
It is trying to implement a solution that is too costly and performs at too low a level to be practical in this time and place.
We speculate on some other concepts that might provide a better outcome.
But the likely outcome is that the automobile air system will remain intact. And, if any HSR is actually built, they will prove to be hopeless economic white elephants.
I have never seen anyone as fixed on a single issue as you. Even in a thread that is supposed to be about alternatives to the automobile and freeways, the only thing you can talk about is....automobiles and freeways. You're hopeless. I may as well be talking to a brick wall.
I have never seen anyone as fixed on a single issue as you. Even in a thread that is supposed to be about alternatives to the automobile and freeways, the only thing you can talk about is....automobiles and freeways. You're hopeless. I may as well be talking to a brick wall.
Actually this thread is about an alternative to HSR and conventional air/auto.
I have little problem with either of the two tube propositions other than doubting their practicality with their present art.
And a few of us have put forth that the actual likely alternative to HSR is the robotic car/truck/bus. Which is also unproven technology but well ahead of any of the other concepts.
I did that commute about once a week for five years. If you could work it so I could do it door to door...LA airport area to Palo Alto in under 3 hours for less than airline fair I can see a winner. That does not appear to be the present proposal.
It always amazes me that people cite today's statistics when talking about transportation that will function for half a century or more.
High Speed Rail is not about today's problems (mostly). It's about when LAX is capped according to court agreement and they can't waste precious runway or gate space on LAX-SFO flights. It's about when the population is over 50 million and cars have brought things to a crawl. It's about $6-$8 a gallon gas.
It is possible that in the future we will have virtual reality simulations so realistic that business travel and/or personal travel will become optional. Other than that, it will continue to get much worse. Who cares what you can do in a car today.
Even today 1.688m passengers fly from LAX to SFO (busiest route for LAX) which ties up both airports. LAX to London is 1.3m passengers a year, which is a vital use for the airport. I believe that LAX is limited to 78m psgrs a year by court order. Beijing and Atlanta are already over 78m .
Last edited by PacoMartin; 09-07-2013 at 05:45 PM..
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