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Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
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I hope this thread doesn't come across as "trollish."
I have a couple of vegan friends in my life that are at times very annoying about their vegan ways, especially one friend who doesn't eat any animal products for moral reasons due to her passion for all animals.
When we go out for beers, I try to at all costs avoid conversations about food with these friends because they tend to get on soapboxes about their veganism if I let the conversation go that way. Sometimes it feels almost as bad as talking to recently converted religious people or people that are overly political about everything.
To the vegan community, have you ever caught yourself being obnoxious about your veganism? For those that have been vegans for years, did you eventually relax with trying to convert or guilt others into being vegans?
Last edited by malcorub16; 11-02-2017 at 01:33 PM..
I hope this thread doesn't come across as "trollish."
I have a couple of vegan friends in my life that are at times very annoying about their vegan ways, especially one friend who doesn't eat any animal products for moral reasons due to her passion for all animals.
When we go out for beers, I try to at all costs avoid conversations about food with these friends because they tend to get on soapboxes about their veganism if I let the conversation go that way. Sometimes it feels almost as bad as talking to recently converted religious people or people that are overly political about everything.
To the vegan community, have you ever caught yourself being obnoxious about your veganism? For those that have been vegans for years, did you eventually relax with trying to convert or guilt others into being vegans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gguerra
Very recent thread on this topic and may interest you.
I don't know if the mods will merge the OP's post into the already-existing thread, but I think it's a good question.
I have a vegan daughter. She CAN get passionate about her feelings about not exploiting animals, and it caused problems at our Christmas gathering last year. However, the other side of the coin is that the diehard meat-eaters in my family provoked it. I think my dd should have kept her mouth shut and ignored them or refused to engage like I do (I don't eat mammals or poultry), but she is 26 and able to decide for herself what to say and what not and maybe hasn't learned yet that sometimes walking away from an argument started by people who are trying to goad you is the best way.
The result of this is that my sister who hosts Thanksgiving called my mother a month ago already to have her tell my daughter she is only invited for Thanksgiving dinner if she doesn't mention anything about being vegan. My daughter and I have both made other plans for this year. You don't invite your family to Thanksgiving dinner conditionally, sorry.
But to the OP's question, I am wondering if, as time goes on, my daughter will adopt a more live-and-let-live attitude. She really is NOT militant as long as no one challenges her. She dates meat-eaters and she dines with people who do eat meat and she isn't the one to bring it up. She doesn't rag on me because of my consumption of eggs, cheese, or fish, and her father is a bacon cheeseburger kind of guy. She does post anti-meat stuff on her FB page occasionally.
Yes, I read that one and considered piggy backing on that one but it was more from the vegan's perspective.
My thread's question is more from the perspective of the friend/family member/acquaintance of the vegan posing an honest question to vegans. Rereading it a day later, the thread good have a better name.
I was vegan for just over six years (February 2011 to end May 2017). I was not extremely vocal in part because I am very shy, introverted, and suffer with avoidant personality disorder, but I was big into the ethical aspect and did some animal rights work. I joined Vegan Outreach and leafleted colleges and high schools on my own in my city (with guidance from Vegan Outreach and materials provided to me for free). I tabled at a private college in the student Union. I worked with the director of Nutrition Services to get vegan options on the menu at a local hospital which I was successful at. I also wrote management at various groceries to get vegan products on shelves. For the most part when doing these activities, I was polite, open minded, did not harass people. In fact when leafleting I had leaflets thrown at me, was made fun of etc but chose to ignore these comments and actions. I did not push materials on people who said they weren't interested, though I did approach people and ask if they wanted one. I simply moved on to the next person. Looking back, I can see how even this was probably annoying to people. I dislike when I am walking somewhere and someone shoves a religious leaflet at me. I just want to be left alone.
I did speak up at restaurants for my needs and wishes (after all I was paying the same as everyone else to eat there, why not have something I want?). There again I was discreet and polite. Often I would call ahead and ask about items, or research online menus where possible. I HATED to make a scene, in part because of my shyness but also because I battle an eating disorder and eating out at all is still a challenge for me as I hate to be seen eating. Long story. But I learned assertiveness quickly as a vegan lol. I'm sure I must have annoyed staff when asking questions like "does this bread have honey in it?" or "is there fish sauce in this Asian Stir fry?". But I only once had a bad experience with staff at any given restaurant (keeping in mind I eat out no more than five times per year on average lol). At work, I shared vegan dishes at potlucks, but often refused dishes offered to me because they were not vegan. At staff meetings in conference rooms where meals were "provided" and never remotely vegan, I brought my own food, the only person in a room of 36 people not eating a pizza and coke. I'm sure that drew attention (with thoughts like " oh boy, one of those health nuts") but it is what it is. I never said anything unless someone asked me about it, and I kept it short and sweet. I did not like engaging in political conversations about ethics at work.
My awfulness was with family. I was terrible to my family and partner, constantly trying to get them to convert to veganism and insisting that meals at others house be all vegan. Eventually my Mom and sister went vegan but neither lasted more than a year or so, but we did have all vegan meals for holiday get togethers. But sometimes my sister would use honey in a dessert and I would go ballistic. Looking back I am embarrassed at my ridiculousness. I would get mad when I caught my mother "cheating". My family would hide food when I came to visit lol. I had countless arguments with my partner because I refused to cook any animal products for him and I am the main cook and food provider, so by default he had to change a lot about the way he ate. I would not allow him to cook animal products on my dishes, and we had separate cupboards for our own food (still do). I have my own mini refrigerator even. Over time my partner became very accommodating and was actually quite open minded and generous and respectful. I would not allow meat in the house even though it's technically his house. But I would let him bring home eggs or milk if he kept it hidden from my sight lol.
I also began to see a lot of extremism on many online vegan forums. It wasn't good enough to be vegan. You had to avoid palm oil, any product made by a nonvegan company (or vegan products/companies who sold themselves to nonvegan companies, such as Daiya who many vegans are now against. And Just Mayo, because they test on animals, is now black marked by vegans). If you lived with or dated an omnivore, you were "disgusting" and not being vegan. If you fed your dog or cat meat, you were no better than an omni. If you took meds that were not vegan or tested on animals, you were selfish (this one really got to me). People would argue that non vegans didn't care about people or animals at all. I disagree.
My last year of being vegan I began to question many of the grey areas of veganism and this extremism, while also battling health issues and OCD related to my eating disorder (anorexia nervosa) and osteoporosis, which worsened considerably in my years as a vegan (with DEXA scans to prove it). I had gone vegan as a gesture of compassion and peace, but found I was angry all the time, frustrated with others, always striving for a perfectionism and an ideal that is impossible to attain. For very personal reasons I finally stepped away from veganism and am now vegetarian and feel much happier in this regard. There is less pressure, I am more laid back, I no longer judge others for what they eat. I get along better with family, and don't scrutinize every detail of every food or other product (though I still avoid wearing leather, wool etc, and use plant based soaps etc., I do have "used" items that have leather in them, and though my ballet shoes are specially made vegan, my point shoes are not due to the cost and time to have them custom made vegan). I used to deny that it was hard being vegan, but in truth sometimes it was exhausting because it often meant ordering stuff online because there isn't much for vegan shoes in a 200 mile radius of where I live (I was also obsessed with the glue in shoes etc), or driving or cycling to five different stores to find vegan food items beyond produce, bulk grains, and beans. Heck even raw nuts that aren't treated with crap like gelatin are hard to find here, and most bread has honey or animal based D3 in it, or stuff like L cysteine (which can be derived from human hair that didn't come from a human voluntarily giving their hair up, or feathers). I admit I still look for some of this stuff, but i don't worry about the tiny bit of honey in a product, or the little bit of egg or milk. My partner is allowed to bring his meat in the house now lol, though I still don't prepare it. I am MUCH quieter in real life about being vegetarian, but part of that is the awkwardness of going from an animal rights activist and well known vegan to a vegetarian who eats eggs and dairy now. I had to purge quite a few intolerant friends on Facebook who were hardcore vegan activists. but I have vegan friends in real life (from a former Vegan Meetup group) who are still very nice to me and not push at all (though I don't eat out with them). My coworkers and family have been understanding and nice to me. But I have also been called "wishy washy" and "traitor" and "never truly vegan". Seriously I could care less anymore. I left a lot of vegan forums and stick to only one or two vegetarian ones, but even there the occasional outspoken vegan will speak up about how vegetarians are no better than omnis etc. As if the morality and decency of a person is only based on what they eat and buy. I'm tired of some propaganda and secretly roll my eyes at some of it lol. I actually find it hard to be vegetarian from a social aspect more so than vegan because I am often judged by both vegans and omnis. I'm to the point where I just want people to leave me alone and let me be. I just don't push beliefs anymore. I go to vegetarian forums more for recipes and lifestyle tips and just social stuff and far less to talk about philosophical ethical and political issues. I do find on my personal Facebook page that I don't DARE include any recipe I have tried and liked that involves eggs or dairy due to the vegan friends I have left on there that I don't want to offend or judge me. So I post recipes I am excited about on vegetarian forums that are open to that sort of thing.
I am also learning through being honest and sharing my personal experience that there are a LOT of people who convert back and forth or are not as "strict vegan" as one might think.
My vegan dd is also gluten intolerant, so she will occasionally have a pizza without cheese and a gf crust, knowing there is egg in the crust. And when she has tea with her grandmother, she uses cow's milk because that's all my mother has in the house and the important thing is that she is spending time with Grandma.
The moment I discover a girl is vegan I instantly eject. That's the same as her having 'Drama Llama' tattooed on her forehead.
Now of course that does not apply to ALL vegan chicks. But just like in Vegas .... you gotta play the odds that allow you to win more times than you lose ( nobody hits an 18 and only a fool splits 2 jacks )
I know this reply with not be well received ... it does not apply to everyone whether you are male or female.
It is simply my choice based upon past experiences that clearly showed me vegan chicks are much more likely to be a headcase than non vegan chicks
The moment I discover a girl is vegan I instantly eject. That's the same as her having 'Drama Llama' tattooed on her forehead.
Now of course that does not apply to ALL vegan chicks. But just like in Vegas .... you gotta play the odds that allow you to win more times than you lose ( nobody hits an 18 and only a fool splits 2 jacks )
I know this reply with not be well received ... it does not apply to everyone whether you are male or female.
It is simply my choice based upon past experiences that clearly showed me vegan chicks are much more likely to be a headcase than non vegan chicks
I sat next to a guy in Puerto who split 2 jacks--and it worked out.
But yes, if your experience tells you that you won't be compatible, it's best to move on.
I sat next to a guy in Puerto who split 2 jacks--and it worked out.
But yes, if your experience tells you that you won't be compatible, it's best to move on.
Thanks for being a good sport shows class *wink
But any card pro will tell you to NEVER split a winning hand ( and 20 is a winner - no matter if the dealer is showing an ace or face card - NEVER split a 20 - EVER ) you will lose more than you win over a long sampling period = BAD strategy
The moment I discover a girl is vegan I instantly eject. That's the same as her having 'Drama Llama' tattooed on her forehead.
Now of course that does not apply to ALL vegan chicks. But just like in Vegas .... you gotta play the odds that allow you to win more times than you lose ( nobody hits an 18 and only a fool splits 2 jacks )
I know this reply with not be well received ... it does not apply to everyone whether you are male or female.
It is simply my choice based upon past experiences that clearly showed me vegan chicks are much more likely to be a headcase than non vegan chicks
My sister was vegan for about 5 years, and she was quite easy to get along with. When I visited I could cook meat or whatever... I can do vegetarian easily so we were mostly in sync.
I don't like any one to lecture me on lifestyle in any way, and it's super rude for anyone to do that to someone else..
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shows class *wink
