[arel]

Hi Jason Els! I haven't seen your posts for awhile. I for one missed you, and I'm glad you're back.

From your posts, I gather that you left Vermont and moved to Warwick. If that is true, I hope the move went well for you and you are happy where you are now.

What made you decide on Warwick? If necessary, you can direct us to the New York forum for the answer.

[arel]

OK. I already have Birkenstocks (two pairs of sandals and two pairs of massage sandals). I can get rid of my Nissan Sentra and buy a Subaru (which I planned to do anyway once I got up there). I don't have any flannel but I have an old navy blue chamois shirt. I have LL Bean sneaker-style boots lined with Gore-Tex, and one is also lined with Thinsulate. I will buy a pair of Carhartt pants (I usually wear jeans anyway - mostly whatever fits best, without regard to the label).

I visited the Carhartt web site.

I was criticized at one job for dressing too casually. At another job, I learned I was once described as the therapist who always wears jeans. A co-worker begged me to buy some Dockers. I did, and now they are my dress-up pants for work, although I still wear jeans most of the time. (Since I do a lot of work with children, I can use that as an excuse.) I also have some leggings from LL Bean and Lands End, which I use for real dress-up. I have two pairs of black velour leggings from Bean which I pretend are velvet and wear to parties. I do not wear high heels, for reasons of comfort, safety, health and also principle. I regard good, practical clothing as a fashion statement of its own.

In New York, clothing is as much a status statement as an artistic statement, and I find that a burden. Many people, I think, live above their means largely because of clothing purchases.

At least sartorially, I think I might fit in better in Vermont than in New York.

But I still find the New England reserve a little jarring at times.

I also find jarring the rudeness of some visiting New Yorkers. Really.

[KoZmiC NinJa]

When I first got my job(??) here I had to work in an area that
one particular process could stain your pants. So, I brought in
a little apron that I wore when I ran a printing press a long time
ago. For about 1 month, yes, that long, I was forced to endure all
manner of 'f@G' and waiter jokes from the hellbillies. Depending on
where you work you might just want to pre-hole and stain your
clothes before you get there.

I think you are overthinking things, Arel....come here and be yourself.
Cool people will accept you. If the smallminded 'chuckers dont, so what,
who cares ??

[Jason_Els]

Originally Posted by arel

Hi Jason Els! I haven't seen your posts for awhile. I for one missed you, and I'm glad you're back.

Thank you. Most kind.

From your posts, I gather that you left Vermont and moved to Warwick. If that is true, I hope the move went well for you and you are happy where you are now.

Nope. Lived in Warwick nearly all my life. I spend a lot of time in Vermont as I have quite a bit of family up there and thus get exposed to the real Vermont.

What made you decide on Warwick? If necessary, you can direct us to the New York forum for the answer.

My family's been here for ages. I like its proximity to NYC, that I have family here, the history, and it's still quite pretty. Most of my family has left though, city people have moved-up and driven housing prices way too high bringing a whole host of faults with them. We now have the 29th highest property taxes in the country, soon to move higher as we build a new library. There are no jobs that pay. You now have to work in the city to be able to afford living here and it's just not worth it.

I intend to follow some other family members up to Vermont. It's close enough to NY and I've loved going up there for the last 20 years so as soon as I can get out of here, I'm gone.

[arel]

Well, I stand corrected. I had assumed you lived in Vermont and, even though you loved it, wanted to leave because of the economy.

Glad someone on this forum wants to move TO Vermont and not out of Vermont. Refreshing.

[Jason_Els]

Trick is to move and not have to be dependent on Vermont's economy.

It's a great state but my sister is a social worker with a supervisory position and my brother-in-law is a lawyer with the largest firm in Vermont and they still have problems making ends meet there.

Vermont just does not pay in relation to the cost of living. Same problem where I am. You have to be able to make money independently to live their securely; particularly if you want a family. It's not cheap by any means.

I have a cousin who's an architect and another who has a popular band and they're doing well but they don't live beyond their means. That's the trick to staying there and living comfortably.

[arel]

How is the Vermont economy for social workers? Specifically, clinical social workers? I have been told by two Brattleboro therapists, both in private practice, that a therapist can make a decent living there.

Actuallly there may be less competition for social work jobs in a rural area like Vermont than in a big city. I just worry about the pay.

What makes Vermont so expensive? Heating costs? Food? Rents/mortgages?

From what I read on this forum, cost of living is much less than in New York City, where I live. One reason I want to move is to lower my cost of living. But if the cost of living is, say, 25% less, and the income is 50% less, you are still only half as well off.

I've been warned about financial disappointment in Vermont.

-------------------------------------------------

Woops! Just realized I'm off topic. So I'll get back on.

If I move to Vermont, how will I afford my Carhartt pants?

[VTeratheart]

I'm going to try and answer this as straightforwardly as possible, as I am a practical type of person. Anyway, I think primarily it's the real estate that's gotten so high in VT that's the main "problem". I've lived here all my life, so I don't know how it compares to food prices, or other basic utilities, for that matter. From this board, though, I understand that we're probably pretty average as far as everyday living expenses. It's true that really good paying jobs are hard to come by, for the most part. However, it really depends on where you're willing to live. The more rural you're willing to go, the less expensive real estate will be. Then you have to factor in gas prices, though....

I don't know that I'd say you're overanalyzing the clothing thing, but what you say you wear is exactly what I've seen many professionals (esp. in your field) wear. To be honest, Carhartts are not very comfortable, so please don't order any online before you try them on. Tons of places sell them up here, so you can come on up and see for yourself. JMHO.

My husband and I have been going back and forth about moving down south (another state) but just aren't sure. There's a feeling of safety, of comfort, and familiarity in VT that I'm not sure we'd get many, if any, other places. My husband does have a decent job, and I am working full-time providing in-home childcare, so that I can be home to raise our children. It would be so easy for us to sell, make a decent profit, move down south where I wouldn't have to work, but we're not sure we want to leave the only state we've known. And many people are saying it's becoming a rat race down where we're looking....so....you sacrifice what may be important to many, to make a life up here work for you.

That's the key~prioritizing what's important to you~oh yeah, most of our family is within an hour and a half of us~and making it work. If you love it enough, it CAN work, and it's definitely not as bad as some people here are making it sound.

[arel]

Thank you for your encouraging post.

I was not thinking of clothing costs in terms of the cost of living, but when you consider that clothing purchases sometimes cause people to live beyond their means, it makes sense to think about that. Actually, I started this thread out of curiousity and out of a desire to fit in with the local culture.

Also, I was joking about the Carhartt pants. I would not buy them until I tried them on, and if I didn't have a need for them, I probably wouldn't buy them in the first place. I buy jeans and Dockers from a store a few blocks away from my house, and I wear my clothes until they are no longer presentable. I mostly prefer to buy and wear classic styles that do not go out of fashion. I only added the question about the Carhartts pants in my last post because I realized I had gone off the thread topic.

Anyway...

I guess you are saying that if your housing expenses are kept low, your overall cost of living is manageable.

Sounds like a good idea to buy a rental property and live in one of the units. That way housing expenses are taken care of, and there is even a profit. Or at least to have a house with an apartment for a tenant. This is what my friend in Vermont has been urging me to do. But I need to learn how to be a landlord. Do I want to deal with potentially difficult people living in my own house?

Maybe, though, I'll rent for a while to make sure I want to stay in the area. I hope I can find a rental that will accept a tenant with 5 cats. I see some rentals advertised as "No Pets", but others say "Cats Negotiable".

The Brattleboro Food Co-op is great but its prices are astronomical. But so are prices at the Food Co-op I occasionally go to here in Brooklyn, NY. Organic food is much more expensive than supermarket food. And supermarket food is available in Brattleboro.

Another poster wrote about expensive heating fuel, but his costs are cheaper than mine in Brooklyn, even with our supposedly milder winters.

I'm sure car insurance is chaper in Vermont. I don't know about homeowners insurance. Health insurance is comparable to the group plan I use in NYC.

I would imagine veterinary care is less expensive in Vermont than in NYC.

I would imagine that, overall, the cost of living in Vermont is less expensive than that in NYC.

Jason Els, how can you not be dependent on Vermont's economy? If you are independently wealthy, I can see that. But how else can you not be dependent on Vermont's economy? Work in New Hampshire or Massachusetts? Have a variety of income streams, e.g. job, side busines(es) or second job(s), paying tenants and maybe, if you are lucky, investment income ( ). If I left anything out, please let me know. I welcome all suggestions.

Wait a minute! I'm off-topic again, so I'll get back on and end with a clothes-related comment: I need to order new shirts from LL Bean ASAP. Seriously. I already have shorts and summer shoes. But I really need new shirts.

I wonder if I should start a new thread about the cost of living, since the topic is pretty tangential in this thread. I'll search the forum and see if such threads already exist. They probably do.

[KoZmiC NinJa]

Originally Posted by VTeratheart

and it's definitely not as bad as some people here are making it sound.

I dont know how you can say this.....because it works for you
doesnt mean what other people say is wrong.
I dont wnat to get into a debate about it but with the amount of
posts from intelligent people here who have failed it is definately
as bad a some people say. At the risk of redundancy, going over
stuff that has been posted here over and over again, I would say
if you dont have a job waiting for you that will pay 45,000 you
too will become a Vt. casualty. This means one person renting a
meager apartment and living very, very thriftily. There is absolutely
no way you can come here with no job and buy a house and live even
close to the lifestyle you are accostomed to otherwise.
To the OP, my Wife is Brooklyn born and raised and we go back to
Brooklyn a lot and although realty is more the actual cost of
living here in Vt. will be the same as Brooklyn when its all said and
done.