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I am sure that there are numerous retired and current VSP members who are quite happy with their compensation and their assignments, or prior experiences. The amount of satisfaction with compensation and benefits both while an active member and a vested retired member is subjective person to person. For those contemplating this career path it is very simple to calculate pay grades, steps, possible promotions, and to calculate time served and the retirement benefits you would accrue. It is even possible to view the current bargaining contract which is a good idea especially if you are exploring a lateral switch. One thing to remember is that retired members of any agency will most likely have been granfathered into better benefit and compenasation plans. I know where I worked there have been FIVE revisions in slightly over twenty years, and each one eroded certain benefits for subsequent hires. I also know several VSP members and their most common concern covers staffing versus workload demands and the fact that when overtime is ample, then life is good. Where I worked overtime at the time was readily available, and we had several folks who actually made more in OT than their base wage pushing them into an excellent six figure bracket. The older grandfathered class of employees worked like madmen to get OT as for them it calculated into their retirement benefit. However, if you desire a life outside of work, then you should view OT as an extra perk, not part of your expected compensation to support a lifestyle. I have heard from from my old colleagues that many of the hard charging "lifers" are now paying for their excessive work with attributed health issues. Statistics and studies over the decades have already borne out the fact that LE and fire fighters have shortened life spans, especially personnel who worked in stressful locations over an extended period of time. This is where I think Vermont has an advantage and why perhaps overall satisfaction with their careers may be higher.
Folks, I really appreciate your answers. You are all providing very good information!
Flu, you brought up a point in your last post that I would like to comment on. You mentioned being able to research your career path as it relates to pay grades and steps. This is one of the reasons I am considering making a move. In my state, they eliminated the step plan a little over 20 years ago. Anyone that came on AFTER it was eliminated makes the exact same amount as a rookie fresh out of the academy. We literally have 15 year Troopers making starting pay. All raises are controlled by the legislature. This year, we got 5 percent. That doesn't sound too bad, but it's the first raise we have had in three years. As you know, the cost of living has gone through the roof. We have a retirement plan that pays 75 percent of your salary after 25 years. That also sounds really good, but the guys that came on shortly after the step plan was eliminated are rapidly approaching retirement age. Right now, they would be looking at retiring at 75% of their salary of $35,000. To top it off, they just increased the cost of retiree's health insurance. A retiree now has to pay $1,124 a month for insurance.
I'm originally from Northern New York and I really miss the "sense of community" that people have in that neck of the woods. In Florida, everyone is from some place else and no one seems to have an interest in what goes on in their neighborhood. People down here are not the same as people in places like Vermont. You can tell just by reading the posts that you guys write. All of you have been very helpful and cordial. Go to the Florida board. By the third post in each thread, someone is calling someone else names (yes, I know it's just the internet, but it's like that in real life to).
So far, much of my post has been about the money, but I can assure you, that is not my main motivation.
Anyway, thanks again for all of the replies. Keep them coming!
Just goes to reinforce the point of researching. So many public sector jobs at town, county, city, and state levels have a myriad of variables and numerous subclasses doing the same job, yet at different levels of benefits. More and more are changing from the traditional defined benefit retirement plans to 401 style matching plans. Well, we all have seen how pegging your pension future to the markets can really throw a wrench into the gears. I was lucky, even by taking a reduced early separation, by getting a defined pension at a higher rate than I could have gotten here working a full career. As a matter of fact I am part of a class action at the moment trying to preserve a promised medical benefit which my former municipality changed on us. With budgets being strained there will no doubt be some considerable changes coming down the pike, not just here, but anywhere. One feature that will have bearing on my future decisions will also be the rates at which retirements and social security benefits will be taxed. Should I live to age 62 I will have a combination municipal, state, military, and social security income, and if I am lucky, maybe I will have recouped some of my investment losses. None of the above are substantial as stand alone income, but as a combined aggregate they should provide for basic living needs in a comfortable setting. As it stands now, all of the above forms are fully taxed here in Vt. For some this may be a non issue as the extra amount may not be significant, but for me coupled with existing property taxes it is an issue.
I am sure that there are numerous retired and current VSP members who are quite happy with their compensation and their assignments, or prior experiences. The amount of satisfaction with compensation and benefits both while an active member and a vested retired member is subjective person to person. For those contemplating this career path it is very simple to calculate pay grades, steps, possible promotions, and to calculate time served and the retirement benefits you would accrue. It is even possible to view the current bargaining contract which is a good idea especially if you are exploring a lateral switch. One thing to remember is that retired members of any agency will most likely have been granfathered into better benefit and compenasation plans. I know where I worked there have been FIVE revisions in slightly over twenty years, and each one eroded certain benefits for subsequent hires. I also know several VSP members and their most common concern covers staffing versus workload demands and the fact that when overtime is ample, then life is good. Where I worked overtime at the time was readily available, and we had several folks who actually made more in OT than their base wage pushing them into an excellent six figure bracket. The older grandfathered class of employees worked like madmen to get OT as for them it calculated into their retirement benefit. However, if you desire a life outside of work, then you should view OT as an extra perk, not part of your expected compensation to support a lifestyle. I have heard from from my old colleagues that many of the hard charging "lifers" are now paying for their excessive work with attributed health issues. Statistics and studies over the decades have already borne out the fact that LE and fire fighters have shortened life spans, especially personnel who worked in stressful locations over an extended period of time. This is where I think Vermont has an advantage and why perhaps overall satisfaction with their careers may be higher.
I think this could be said of many employers now. I work at Fletcher Allen in Burlington and the retirement benefits around twelve years ago were fantastic compared to what it is today. There was a pension that was based on your two highest income years as well as a 403b. The pension got the ax just before my hire date.
I think this could be said of many employers now. I work at Fletcher Allen in Burlington and the retirement benefits around twelve years ago were fantastic compared to what it is today. There was a pension that was based on your two highest income years as well as a 403b. The pension got the ax just before my hire date.
It is not going to get any better. Even after this current market meltdown corrects itself and the many years it will take to get back to parity in terms of retirement funds lost, the companies, businesses, and corporations will even more closely guard their bottom line which means benefits and incentives will be even trimmed down further. The reality now is that you and you alone are responsible for planning for your retirement finances which of course has been made ever more so difficult under the current conditions. I have lost a considerable amount of my retirement investments, but quite a few I work with never bothered to even begin contributions. Kind of funny, they think they beat the crash by not investing at all, but they also will literally have to work until the mortuary van arrives to pick up their corpse because they believe life is destined to just work from pay check to paycheck.
What do you think someone should make to live comfortably in Vermont? Obviously, it would depend on the location, but what would be a decent income for a family of three? I don't want to be rich, I just want to be able to own a home on a couple acres and still have enough money to enjoy life a little bit.
What do you think someone should make to live comfortably in Vermont? Obviously, it would depend on the location, but what would be a decent income for a family of three? I don't want to be rich, I just want to be able to own a home on a couple acres and still have enough money to enjoy life a little bit.
To me, there's no magic number about how much income you'll need. Vermont has certain expenses that simply must be considered, such as heating costs and property taxes. Others have compared the cost of living here to Boston, the NY/NJ area, and other big cities, but I have lived in those places (and have relatives and friends still living there), and to me it is waaaayyyy less expensive living here in Vermont.
You're right -- the income you'd need depends largely on where in Vermont you'll live, so there's really no way to generalize the income you'll need. It also depends a great deal on your lifestyle/spending habits. For example, if you want to settle on a couple of acres in Charlotte or Norwich and have cable/satellite TV and other frills, it will cost hugely more than if you chose a less "desirable" town and a simpler lifestyle.
I've seen figures quoted on this forum about how much one "must" earn to survive in Vermont. People are naming figures vastly higher than what my husband and I earn -- and we do just fine here. We don't feel rich, but we also don't feel strapped or poor. We work, we mostly do what we want, and we save. Again, it's function of where and how we live.
Last edited by Sherylcatmom; 10-14-2008 at 08:38 AM..
JM1822 I am also currently hopeing to be employeed by the V.S.P.
Ive already passed the written & physical test & have to go back soon for a second interview. What Ive seen from spending some time with many of the V.S.P Troopers is they are very professional & I look up to them.They def arent like they are portrayed in super troopers.I really respect them & hope to be a part of there team.
To me, there's no magic number about how much income you'll need. Vermont has certain expenses that simply must be considered, such as heating costs and property taxes. Others have compared the cost of living here to Boston, the NY/NJ area, and other big cities, but I have lived in those places (and have relatives and friends still living there), and to me it is waaaayyyy less expensive living here in Vermont.
I've done my research on cost of living in VT vs where I am now in Providence, RI. It's about the same. Property taxes are a little higher in just about all of VT, but in Providence, we have a 7% excise tax on automobiles. That added to our property taxes comes out to about the same if not in favor of VT. Gas prices are about the same, and so are utility costs. Heating will cost a little more. Our roads suck (yes, they're as bad or worse than VT frost heaves all year), our services suck (I actually had to call during the last week of Xmas tree pickup to have it done because trees sat on our street for 2 weeks even though they were supposed to be picked up), and our government tends not to give a crap about what the people want.
So based on what we get for what we pay, VT wins, but the cost of living is about equal to Providence (the rest of RI tends to be cheaper, but real estate costs a lot more).
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