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Great example cuz my 18 yr old daughter just ran off to Texas (7.35 hr) to live the good life and couldn't get hired. She got home Nov 24 and got hired at a call center in the next town at 8.50 hr for 54 hrs a week with hours the same at 9.00 hr in 6 months. All the while she's getting customer service experience and in B-town they start at $13 an hour. It's all relative...you might make less but you pay 1/3 in car insurance and year round heating/cooling costs. I think every state is in the same boat from a working person point of view. Just got to find the state that works for your own situation. There is no "tax free" state or free ride state...it all depends on YOU! You compromise for living here versus other places. If you are in search of the $ (like my kid, I say GO). If you have made the $ elsewhere and are looking to bring it to a great place, I have done it here. It seems I only work for out of staters, Don't know how that happened but I am open to them. Of course diversity is the key in all points of life, maybe not all locals are as open? It's not all touristy, but there is that element. There is also the element that people have made the money elsewhere and want to get the hell out to live in a great friendly place. They want to bring their money and can live anywhere because of the internet. Why not solicit those potential families due to our desirable lifestyle. It's not just tourists anymore but everyday people that can live our lifestyle EVERY day because of the internet.
In B-Town they start at $13 an hour? Is she going to be a lawyer? $13 an hour in Burlington is pretty rare.
I've been thinking about this post and how people move to VT because it's easy to enter politics. The more I thought about it, the more it doesn't make sense, at least to me. Someone had to vote these people into office. I mean, it's not like VT is this weird dictatorship where people are appointed into every branch and level of the state government.
So my point is, either the people in your government lied to you when they were campaigning, in which case you can just vote them out, or the majority of the people who live in VT are in favor of more liberal politics, in which case, get out and vote and endorse the candidates that you like or run for office yourself (after all, it's easy to enter politics there, right?).
That's just my 2 cents on the issue. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain. If you don't get involved, you have no right to complain. But if you don't like the American political system, well... I don't know what to tell you.
If you don't vote, complaining sounds a bit silly.
Not everyone has time to be "involved" beyond voting.
If someone is trying to raise kids and live on VT wages and is, say, a single mom, when should they "get involved"? When they get home from their 3rd job?
Kind of an interesting way to jump in for a first post, but hey what the heck…….
My wife and I just spent 50 straight weekends building our cabin in VT (NEK), of course I’m sure the initial impressions of us based on the license plate etc. are typical “flatlander” stereotypes, until people got to know us and realized we just want to be left alone to live, bike, snowshoe, hunt, and enjoy what is here and not change a thing. We haven’t encountered much “hostility” towards us, which is nice; then again we made sure we did what we could with local vendors and businesses as well, which have developed some friendships. Frankly, I don’t expect people come up our drive and talk to us, it would be great if they did, and I say hello to everyone, but I will not give them an excuse to not at least respect us. We aren’t the typical “flatlanders” we just didn’t win the gene lottery on where we were born. We gladly stack wood in -10 degrees for hours on end, work all weekend building, planting, cutting, splitting, etc. I’m not sure what is more VT than approaching life in that way.
The sustainability of VT huh? Interesting, let’s see, the current population in my area complains about no jobs, no affordable housing and nothing to do. The state doesn’t want “developments” and has laws to discourage it, and the population doesn’t want more mobile homes, which are often an NEK resident’s first purchase. I ran the numbers several ways with some builders I know in the area on the affordable housing issue and even bare bones multi unit rental housing (which most people would agree is not desirable) would require a monthly rental level above what the area could sustain to cashflow properly. So what can be done about increasing opportunities for a decent wage? That is the question, right?
It is very hard to start a business in VT right now, period. The tax climate makes being a resident of VT and trying to live on VT wages a tough pill to swallow even for non-extravagant lifestyles. The niche businesses that have come at a traditional New England staple (farming etc.) from a more modern angle are successful, but they are small operations with limited markets so they are nice to have, but cannot carry the economy. It seems the suggestions to reduce the largess of government in VT (read government spending) while simultaneously increasing the production (income) is the only way VT will become more sustainable. Tehre are strengths in VT that can be assets……….I love the “BuyVT” attitude and support of local businesses, Vermonters buy local with fervor, it would be great to also compliment that with the right mix of traditional corporate jobs, done the right way. If done wrong it is a slippery slope, before you know it, all the things people still run away from in Southern New England suddenly show up in mass.
One more thing on the whole “flatlander” thing (can you see it gets under my skin), while I refuse to speak for the NYC Land Rover crowd as they can indeed start changing a small VT town, I will say many of us folks from “away” chose VT for a reason, out of all the other places we could go, we chose VT, we will fight good and hard to see that it doesn’t become like what we ran away from. Why would we? It makes no sense.
This is where I have a problem. I'm all for people moving around America. We're all Americans. Go where you want.
DO NOT go somewhere and try to turn it into what you want it to be. Dont go somewhere and try to change it at all. So many people who come here to "fight good and hard" try so hard to make VT a state of covered bridges and cows that it's impossible to find work here.
If you came here to spend your parents money, thats not a problem. If you actually have to work for a living, you're screwed.
Saw the "Working Vermonter: Endangered Species" bumper sticker today. So true.
This is where I have a problem. I'm all for people moving around America. We're all Americans. Go where you want.
DO NOT go somewhere and try to turn it into what you want it to be. Dont go somewhere and try to change it at all. So many people who come here to "fight good and hard" try so hard to make VT a state of covered bridges and cows that it's impossible to find work here.
If you came here to spend your parents money, thats not a problem. If you actually have to work for a living, you're screwed.
Saw the "Working Vermonter: Endangered Species" bumper sticker today. So true.
Bickie, I get it. I have been coming to the NEK for various reasons for years before we decided to build a cabin in the woods up there. I didn't choose the NEK because I wanted to change anything except a small parcel of land into a small homestead. The last thing I want is what has happened to Southern NH, it is a shame.
It's all a matter of personal preferences. What is the Vermont lifestyle everyone crows about? It's living in a rural area with few neighbors, little development and not much for career opportunities or recreational activities other than outdoors like hiking or skiing (which few Vermonters can afford). A government run by people who are all trying to outdo the other with their liberal, ground breaking laws and regulations. An aging population, more businesses closing or moving with few jobs being created to replace them which will result in ever greater reduction in tax money pouring into the state coffers which will have to be replaced, putting a greater burden on the people left working and on property taxes. This recession is not going to end soon and the next few years are going to be very hard for Vermont to maintain it's social programs and responsibilities. The first thing you will see go is the property tax rebate and the amount of money the state contributes to towns for education. Don't think the worst is behind, Vermonters are in for a rough time ahead.
My take on that report is not that housing is overpriced in VT but that wages are appalling. The housing stock could be more efficient but compared to the cost of building(unless you build it VT style, yourself while living in it over several years) prices aren't bad. Wages are atrocious. I'd guess they report it the way they do so the underlying suggestion is state money for affordable housing. Not less taxes regulation better jobs and folks buy their own houses.
Get out of the way and let the economy move and folks will be able to provide for themselves- what a strange concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68vette
I'm not sure if you saw the am edition of the news on WCAX, but they ran a story on the housing problem in Vermont. The Vermont Department of Housing has come to two conclusions that need to be addessed. Housing is getting far to expensive and energy costs are far to high. Vermont Dept. of Housing & Community Affairs (http://www.dhca.state.vt.us/Housing/ConPlan/VermontHousingNeedsRFP.htm - broken link) There are not enough homes in the state and the majority of homes the exist are not efficient. Between rental and homes the number of residences that needs to be built by 2014 will have to exceed 13,000 units. As of right now only 18% of people who make 41,000 dollars/yr are able to afford a home in Vermont. This is a huge difference from just over a decade ago and a major thorn in my side. The state continues to hurt itself with all the regulations you have to go through to do anything. When I remodeled my home in Brookfield this past year (a pre existing structure), you would have thought I was trying to build a skyscraper with all the hoops I had to jump through to get the work done. What should have taken a few months ended up being an eight month job. In all honesty I was at the point where I wanted to just give the house away just to be done with it. I don't see how all of these housing units can be built in such a short period of time with the amont of regulations you need to go through. unless a developer comes in and builds hundreds of cookie cutter houses in a development.
It's all a matter of personal preferences. What is the Vermont lifestyle everyone crows about? It's living in a rural area with few neighbors, little development and not much for career opportunities or recreational activities other than outdoors like hiking or skiing (which few Vermonters can afford). A government run by people who are all trying to outdo the other with their liberal, ground breaking laws and regulations. An aging population, more businesses closing or moving with few jobs being created to replace them which will result in ever greater reduction in tax money pouring into the state coffers which will have to be replaced, putting a greater burden on the people left working and on property taxes. This recession is not going to end soon and the next few years are going to be very hard for Vermont to maintain it's social programs and responsibilities. The first thing you will see go is the property tax rebate and the amount of money the state contributes to towns for education. Don't think the worst is behind, Vermonters are in for a rough time ahead.
That is the bad news in a nutshell…….
About the recreational activities, what other recreational activities does Vermont need that aren’t available? Granted the bulk of them are outdoor activities, but there are a ton. I’m trying to think of something that Southern New England has that Vermont doesn’t and maybe I’m having a brain fart but other than commercial recreation like bowling, driving ranges etc. I can’t think of much.
About the recreational activities, what other recreational activities does Vermont need that aren’t available? Granted the bulk of them are outdoor activities, but there are a ton. I’m trying to think of something that Southern New England has that Vermont doesn’t and maybe I’m having a brain fart but other than commercial recreation like bowling, driving ranges etc. I can’t think of much.
Southern New England has the ocean. That's really about it.
If you don't vote, complaining sounds a bit silly.
Not everyone has time to be "involved" beyond voting.
If someone is trying to raise kids and live on VT wages and is, say, a single mom, when should they "get involved"? When they get home from their 3rd job?
Getting involved is as simple as calling or writing your city council, your local government, your state reps and senators, your US reps and senators, etc. The beauty of our political system is that you have a right to contact these people and tell them what you think.
Sure, it's better if you go to meetings and state your mind in person, but not everyone has time for that (in fact, I don't have time for that). But everyone has time to write a letter or make a phone call.
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