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Tehre are strengths in VT that can be assets……….I love the “BuyVT” attitude and support of local businesses, Vermonters buy local with fervor, it would be great to also compliment that with the right mix of traditional corporate jobs, done the right way. If done wrong it is a slippery slope, before you know it, all the things people still run away from in Southern New England suddenly show up in mass.
One more thing on the whole “flatlander” thing (can you see it gets under my skin), while I refuse to speak for the NYC Land Rover crowd as they can indeed start changing a small VT town, I will say many of us folks from “away” chose VT for a reason, out of all the other places we could go, we chose VT, we will fight good and hard to see that it doesn’t become like what we ran away from. Why would we? It makes no sense.
These are some really great points. In Providence, we have a "Buy Providence" campaign going on, especially around the holidays. The city had shut off the parking meters downtown allowing people to park for free and shop. I don't know if it helps, but I do know that there are far fewer parking spaces available on the street because of it.
People love big box stores, but I am not a fan, though I do shop at them. I prefer regional chains and local stores to national chains. If more people shopped at the local stores, they could grow and afford to hire more people, creating more jobs, keeping the money local. While big box stores offer jobs and occasionally lower prices (Walmart doesn't even always have lower prices than local stores once you compare the quality of what you're buying), the money leaves the state. I never eat at a chain restaurant and usually seek out the local joints when I'm traveling.
As for your last statement, you couldn't be more correct. That's exactly how I feel. Don't look at people coming in from out of state as bad for VT. They want to live there for a reason. They left where they were for a reason. I wouldn't want to turn VT into RI. I am choosing VT for a reason. When I moved to RI, I didn't want it to be more like CT, I fought to make RI and Providence better at what they were (and I still do). Just because someone wasn't born somewhere doesn't mean they shouldn't live there. I got that a lot at city meetings because I wasn't a native RIer. People assume those who live there the longest should have the most say in what happens to the place, but that's just not how it should be, for better or for worse. I may have liberal politics, but I don't want a hippie utopia.
Jim, ironically our work week residence is only 10 mins from PVD, so we are familiar with the area.
I have plenty of friends/hunting partners that are VT natives and they ride me occasionally on the “flatlander” thing and they eventually shut up as I hike their butts up and down the mountains during the fall, it is what it is. At the end of the day if someone wants to dislike me because of where I was born, knock themselves out, it doesn’t impact me much. Obviously I would prefer to be friendly with everyone, and in general I am.
VT has some unique qualities that people could use to their advantage but it seems many folks are more interested in grabbing a 12 pack and blaming everyone else. Of course that isn’t limited to VT, but if you’re not part of the solution then where does that leave you?
It’s strange in a way where we are in the NEK, there are tons of local places to eat, and I mean way more than you think should be necessary, but very few places to shop for everyday items. There are some places of course but not many. The locals complain about no shopping but don’t want a chain to come in necessarily and unfortunately the scale isn’t there to provide good products at a good price for a Mom & Pop so it is almost like a NIMBY Catch-22. You can’t complain about the problem and the only workable solutions and expect to get somewhere.
Sorry, that the "old timers" have their view, but a lot of folks coming here have the asme fierce independent view that their own states forsake for them. Of course industry is not the same...I walk almost every night to experience the old piano mill we once had and I lament it to my guests. I wholeheartedly respect Vermonters and commend them for having the biggest balls since the beginning of the US! The wimps went south and to the midwest of golden acres!!!! If it weren't for the New Englanders, the Us would not exist! So, Enough said!
The old school way of thinking is gone, so??? You have the ability to attract a much richer segment because of the attention to green living....lo and behold no billboards. I spent over 100k to get here to live like a "poor norther new englander"...it is closer to my soul. Find a way to capitalize upon the carelessness of city dwellers "trying" to live green. Sell them what we do every day..... It's not the outsiders fault, we just need to learn that others want our "lifestyle" and pay big bucks to try and learn what we "do". Work hand in hand with the state plan and it's free advertising. Of course there is bad here, but go away to a big city for 3 months and then take score.
Sorry, that the "old timers" have their view, but a lot of folks coming here have the asme fierce independent view that their own states forsake for them. Of course industry is not the same...I walk almost every night to experience the old piano mill we once had and I lament it to my guests. I wholeheartedly respect Vermonters and commend them for having the biggest balls since the beginning of the US! The wimps went south and to the midwest of golden acres!!!! If it weren't for the New Englanders, the Us would not exist! So, Enough said!
The old school way of thinking is gone, so??? You have the ability to attract a much richer segment because of the attention to green living....lo and behold no billboards. I spent over 100k to get here to live like a "poor norther new englander"...it is closer to my soul. Find a way to capitalize upon the carelessness of city dwellers "trying" to live green. Sell them what we do every day..... It's not the outsiders fault, we just need to learn that others want our "lifestyle" and pay big bucks to try and learn what we "do". Work hand in hand with the state plan and it's free advertising. Of course there is bad here, but go away to a big city for 3 months and then take score.
I absolutely respect the hard liners in Vermont and Northern New Englanders in general, heck I’m a New Englander myself, always have been. It has nothing to do with “old timers” views for me, frankly to be honest the “old timers” aren’t the ones that are going to turn VT around in the next 10-30 years as they are mostly retired etc.
While I can understand the move to VT and go green approach, heck I’m a big proponent of homesteading, selling an experience to a tourist still relies on that tourist showing up with $. I was under the impression VTers pride themselves on being self-sufficient and dependent on no one, a tourist economy is diametrically opposed to that approach, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be more sustainable and weather-proof to diversify throughout the VT economy so all the eggs are not in one basket? Maybe push to break down the barriers to business and make it attractive to mid sized companies and encourage entrepreneurship among the young people in VT? Produce something? Service something?
For an example, years ago Canada realized that they had a population of people very willing to help other people and genuinely nice, they capitalized on that by investing in infrastructure to support call centers and then lured large companies to establish a call center there . Guess what, 1000’s of jobs with benefits with multiple shifts during the day as many are 24/7 like UPS for example. I’m not saying VT needs call centers, as they missed the boat on that, but there are other things that can been done besides waiting for tourists to drive up there and drop off their cash.
I tell you one thing I will gladly admit now I don't give a damn (again) what anyone thinks...
I do not buy local if it costs more. Buy local is a bunch of crap. We go out of our way to shop in the cheapest places, even if it takes a half hour to get there. I don't CARE about 'poor farmers' or their stories anymore. Bet the state supplements them and if not, well, they can always sell maple syrup to out of staters...
I can't get a job here and I refuse to be 'browbeaten' by rich hippies to buy local when it costs more.
A few month ago I was in Walmart in Claremont, NH. I was speaking with my husband and the lady in front of us and the clerk were both listening. We were talking about this buy local 'crap' VT tries to thrust on people who make such poor wages. Both the clerk AND the lady in front of me agreed. The customer said to me (she was also from VT) "I shop where I can afford. If someone wants to pay my bills, I will buy local." The cashier (another Vermonter) said she traveled an hour to work and would not buy 'local' either.
So, VT, your 'buy local' is yet another fail attempt to 'gain revenue' from locals. The only ones I know who buy local (if it costs more) are out of staters...Or perhaps if someone NEEDS to buy something from the Co op (a good cause in my opinion).
The only local place I shop is the gas station (when we run out of milk) and the cheaper farm stand in WRJ. (with produce from Boston markets).
Sorry if this is harsh but my pockets need the little money we have made in this state.
I hate that ad on the radio for the local computer store...shop us and not the BIG BOX STORES...lol...yeah, I will gladly pay extra to support you..(not)...
I don't care if the fat cats wake up in Montpelier or not, I am so out of here.
For an example, years ago Canada realized that they had a population of people very willing to help other people and genuinely nice, they capitalized on that by investing in infrastructure to support call centers and then lured large companies to establish a call center there . Guess what, 1000’s of jobs with benefits with multiple shifts during the day as many are 24/7 like UPS for example. I’m not saying VT needs call centers, as they missed the boat on that, but there are other things that can been done besides waiting for tourists to drive up there and drop off their cash.
The tech and customer support staff for CREDO Mobile, my fantastic cell service, are in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. They're incredibly competent and courteous. I'd thought the AT&T BlackBerry support I'd been getting was good but the CREDO folks in Canada really shine.
I know lots of smart, friendly people in Vermont who'd be happy to have jobs like those. I wonder what other kinds of businesses like that could work here?
I do not buy local if it costs more. Buy local is a bunch of crap. We go out of our way to shop in the cheapest places, even if it takes a half hour to get there.
Here's a valid question for you... Do you add in the amount you spend on gas to get to those cheaper places when you buy cheaper rather than local? It adds up and oftentimes it can cost you just as much when you add that into the equation.
I can save a ton of money by shopping farther away than I do. But it works out the same, if not cheaper, if I go 2 miles away rather than 20-30 miles away when I subtract the cost of gas from my savings.
I absolutely respect the hard liners in Vermont and Northern New Englanders in general, heck I’m a New Englander myself, always have been. It has nothing to do with “old timers” views for me, frankly to be honest the “old timers” aren’t the ones that are going to turn VT around in the next 10-30 years as they are mostly retired etc.
While I can understand the move to VT and go green approach, heck I’m a big proponent of homesteading, selling an experience to a tourist still relies on that tourist showing up with $. I was under the impression VTers pride themselves on being self-sufficient and dependent on no one, a tourist economy is diametrically opposed to that approach, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be more sustainable and weather-proof to diversify throughout the VT economy so all the eggs are not in one basket? Maybe push to break down the barriers to business and make it attractive to mid sized companies and encourage entrepreneurship among the young people in VT? Produce something? Service something?
For an example, years ago Canada realized that they had a population of people very willing to help other people and genuinely nice, they capitalized on that by investing in infrastructure to support call centers and then lured large companies to establish a call center there . Guess what, 1000’s of jobs with benefits with multiple shifts during the day as many are 24/7 like UPS for example. I’m not saying VT needs call centers, as they missed the boat on that, but there are other things that can been done besides waiting for tourists to drive up there and drop off their cash.
Great example cuz my 18 yr old daughter just ran off to Texas (7.35 hr) to live the good life and couldn't get hired. She got home Nov 24 and got hired at a call center in the next town at 8.50 hr for 54 hrs a week with hours the same at 9.00 hr in 6 months. All the while she's getting customer service experience and in B-town they start at $13 an hour. It's all relative...you might make less but you pay 1/3 in car insurance and year round heating/cooling costs. I think every state is in the same boat from a working person point of view. Just got to find the state that works for your own situation. There is no "tax free" state or free ride state...it all depends on YOU! You compromise for living here versus other places. If you are in search of the $ (like my kid, I say GO). If you have made the $ elsewhere and are looking to bring it to a great place, I have done it here. It seems I only work for out of staters, Don't know how that happened but I am open to them. Of course diversity is the key in all points of life, maybe not all locals are as open? It's not all touristy, but there is that element. There is also the element that people have made the money elsewhere and want to get the hell out to live in a great friendly place. They want to bring their money and can live anywhere because of the internet. Why not solicit those potential families due to our desirable lifestyle. It's not just tourists anymore but everyday people that can live our lifestyle EVERY day because of the internet.
Yeah, that is true. I have figured this out. It costs about $5.00 in gas. But I save a lot more at a Super Walmart than some local (closer) store even counting in the gas.
I'm not about insulting anyone with my lifestyle choices or views. I just don't care anymore since I can't get a job in this state. I don't need to live by some dopey granola theories.
Last edited by GypsySoul22; 12-22-2009 at 03:39 PM..
I do not buy local if it costs more. Buy local is a bunch of crap. We go out of our way to shop in the cheapest places, even if it takes a half hour to get there. I don't CARE about 'poor farmers' or their stories anymore. Bet the state supplements them and if not, well, they can always sell maple syrup to out of staters...
I've been visiting VT since the '60's and as dearly as I love it I won't "buy local" while I'm visiting. I can buy Cabot Cheese cheaper in my area supermarkets than VT supermarkets and worse, VT maple syrup is cheaper in NY than in VT!
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