[GypsySoul22]

I am not a fan of big box stores 'being the employment' option of the people because they don't pay very well and we all know what we hear about how they treat their employees.

However, I am not a huge fan of Mom and Pop places. I have yet to get the warm fuzzy feeling you are 'supposed to' get when shopping at one of these smaller, family run places.

Take for example, our local 'in village' 'country store.' I think they are under new management/ownership but the times I have gone prior (2 times to buy a newspaper) the worker(s) have been surly and miserable. No thank you, no hi, how are you, nothing.

The local country store in my old village, they were always pretty friendly (the owner, not the goobers they hired).

Seriously, it's not just Vermont...customer service has taken a nose dive in this country. Cashiers should not have to kiss your a** but be a little friendly. Say hi or thank you or SOMETHING.

[Logs and Dogs]

Originally Posted by tkln

I've heard from many contractors that some other things that HD/Lowe's carry are made specifically for them by companies and is not to the same standards as the 'real' thing- stuff like windows, doors, cabinets, etc...I have no idea how true this is, but I will say this much - the paint at HD/Lowe's is horrible. I've bought paint from both stores, and compared to Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore, they are garbage.

Why do I feel like I am defending the anti-Christ here, believe me I’m no huge fan of either store, but most of this “I heard from a guy” stuff is part truth and part fiction and over dramatized.

Yes HD/Lowes have certain things made to their specifications to meet a certain price point. An example of this might be a Makita 18V wireless drillset. At Amazon.com or your local hardware store the package includes the drill, 2 batteries, a charger and a case. At HD the package might consist of a drill, 1 battery, charger and cheaper case. I have no doubt some of the door and window manufactures will work with the large boxes to adjust a product line to fit with their retail strategy of Good, Better & Best offerings.

As far as paint, if you go with American Traditions and pay the money for the good stuff at Lowes or the higher end Behr paint at HD, it is as good as Sherwin for the most part. At least published side by side comparisons have been favorable. And hey if it is true that the paint sucks, the Sherwin Williams guy has nothing to worry about, right?

Listen, big box stores haven’t been this successful because they offer crap products to morons (all jokes aside here), they represent a value proposition that most people who count their pennies are thankful for. But if Vermont or anywhere else would rather pay through the nose for something or settle for lousy selection of mediocre products then far be if for me to try and convince them otherwise. Like I said for most of us putting our heads in the sand and hoping the 1950s will return isn’t an option.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Logs and Dogs

Why do I feel like I am defending the anti-Christ here, believe me I’m no huge fan of either store, but most of this “I heard from a guy” stuff is part truth and part fiction and over dramatized.

Yes HD/Lowes have certain things made to their specifications to meet a certain price point. An example of this might be a Makita 18V wireless drillset. At Amazon.com or your local hardware store the package includes the drill, 2 batteries, a charger and a case. At HD the package might consist of a drill, 1 battery, charger and cheaper case. I have no doubt some of the door and window manufactures will work with the large boxes to adjust a product line to fit with their retail strategy of Good, Better & Best offerings.

As far as paint, if you go with American Traditions and pay the money for the good stuff at Lowes or the higher end Behr paint at HD, it is as good as Sherwin for the most part. At least published side by side comparisons have been favorable. And hey if it is true that the paint sucks, the Sherwin Williams guy has nothing to worry about, right?

Listen, big box stores haven’t been this successful because they offer crap products to morons (all jokes aside here), they represent a value proposition that most people who count their pennies are thankful for. But if Vermont or anywhere else would rather pay through the nose for something or settle for lousy selection of mediocre products then far be if for me to try and convince them otherwise. Like I said for most of us putting our heads in the sand and hoping the 1950s will return isn’t an option.

Actually, that (bolded) is Walmart's and several other stores' business plan. Sell lots of cheap Chinese crap to people too dumb to buy better stuff. You can get better stuff cheaper in fact used at yard sales, etc. About the only thing any good at walmart is ammo from American companies, the mantles I buy for my coleman lanterns (though they're declining in quality) and a very few other things.

The lumber, for instance, at home depot is very poor quality.

And yes the people making better stuff do have to worry, ask all the American workers who've lost their jobs to the third world...

[Logs and Dogs]

I said that sort of tongue in cheek.......

Like I said I'm not the Wal Mart welcome wagon here............things just aren't as black and white as people pretend they are.

[mustmove]

Walmart sells Cabot cheese at great prices. WM buys as much as they can from Cabot at whatever the asking price is. Is WM selling Cabot cheese as a loss leader? Who cares. If you want the stuff buy it at the best price. Cabot wins and you win. Buying Cabot cheese at a WM in VT is local right?

[Lilybeans]

I think a lot of Vermonters think the grass is greener with big box stores and industry. It isn't. Why do you folks live in Vermont if you don't like it? If you say it's for the environment or the land or the quiet, well tehn those are the things you will lose with industry and big box stores.

Bring in a Wal Mart and you will lose even more. Wal Mart will wipe out local jobs, and then peoiple will be thanking Wal Mart for paying them minimum wage to sell Chinese crap.

If you want all the industry and bg boxes, there are plent yof places to move to. Those things are not good. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

[mustmove]

I'd rather work at WM than any local general store. WM promotes smart people, where you going to go working at someone's family store? The family will end up with the assets regardless of how much sweat you put in, no stock options, pension plan, or profit sharing at Joe's Gasn'Go. None of the local store jobs pay any higher than WM, and have less benefits. Sure you can probably get paid in cash working at the local store and still collect public services but is that any way to go through life?
VT has banished economic activity and at the same time spends lots of money. You can have all those wonderful social programs if you have industry to pay for them. Can't have one without the other. VT worked when it was poor and the state was frugal, now it is poor(by state GDP) and spending dopey amounts of money(except on the roads.)

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by mustmove

I'd rather work at WM than any local general store. WM promotes smart people, where you going to go working at someone's family store? The family will end up with the assets regardless of how much sweat you put in, no stock options, pension plan, or profit sharing at Joe's Gasn'Go. None of the local store jobs pay any higher than WM, and have less benefits. Sure you can probably get paid in cash working at the local store and still collect public services but is that any way to go through life?
VT has banished economic activity and at the same time spends lots of money. You can have all those wonderful social programs if you have industry to pay for them. Can't have one without the other. VT worked when it was poor and the state was frugal, now it is poor(by state GDP) and spending dopey amounts of money(except on the roads.)

There's plenty of Walmarts around if that's what you want. Why not go where there is one?

[arctichomesteader]

We had some industry without the mega-corporations and walmarts years ago. Smaller scale industry than most other states but it worked well for the state. The invasion of the state, and free trade, did away with a lot of it. Real estate was also affordable back then before it was a playground for the rich. It's a shame we can't do something to stop the rich out of staters from buying up property at high prices but I can't think of anything that could be done. I saw a statistic that 70 percent of the current legislature was born outside of VT. Perhaps that needs to change and get some people who also budget more responsibly.

[StilltheSame]

Originally Posted by Sherylcatmom

Really? Fantasy world? I know of several commercial real estate deals in South Florida that fell through because these kinds of chains decided it didn't make sense to open more stores for exactly the reasons momnh described. But don't let other realities, such as the pervasive nationwide economic climate, rain on your parade of trashing Vermont.

Im not quite sure how I stumbled on this thread but to compare SFL retail development to that of Vermont is absurd. SFL is so overdeveloped it is ridiculous. They could have a 10 year moratorium on new retail locations and not miss a beat. Not to mention the disaster that is the real estate market in South Florida.